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What, going to university costs money?!? </scandinavian> EDIT: I didn't mean to be all smug about it. The cost of going to university is different in differen

What, going to university costs money?!? </scandinavian> EDIT: I didn't mean to be all smug about it. The cost of going to university is different in different countries, and if it's too expensive where you're at, maybe going as an exchange student is a viable alternative? That's the only big regret I have, never having done that.

lbotos 15y ago
Welcome to America! Cash is king. My art school degree when said and done will cost somewhere near $72,000. That is just tuition. I can't wait to see what the "open" education platforms of the future bring.
- ntkachov 15y ago
  As much as people crap on art school an art degree can at least pay for itself as long as your willing to work for other, and not, say, make drawings of anime all day. Most of the anti-college rhetoric comes from 1 simple things. Cost of degree > Worth of degree. $200,000 for a degree which only nets a $35,000/yr job is starting to seem like a bad deal.
  - rmk 15y ago
    Make that Cost of (Humanities) degree >> Worth of said degree Sad, but true. Perhaps humanities subjects are ripe for an online-learning revolution.
    - politician 15y ago
      I believe China has stopped paying for / blocked universities from offering degrees in certain humanities subjects based on the productivity argument.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
  - gdubs 15y ago
    That's if you value the degree in terms of the salary you can garner after graduating, or believe that money is everything. There are simply some things that you cannot put a price on. College is not for everyone, but for many it can be an eye-opening experience that enriches lives in deep ways.
    - ms4720 15y ago
      Re: There are simply some things that you cannot put a price on. Debt that will follow you through bankruptcy is not one of them. I know of people who took exactly that attitude about college and it destroyed their lives. If you are not paying for college, or not paying much, it is true that it can be a fun 4 years and does not need to be considered a financial decisions. But when you are collecting more debt than an average mortgage you should really consider if the house you are buying is worth it.
      - gdubs 15y ago
        If someone is looking for a safe financial investment that provides guaranteed returns on the dollar, college isn't likely to rank high on that list. We seem to agree on that. I said that college isn't for everyone. My point was that equating worth or value directly to a dollar value return is probably a bad way to look at an education. Many people can't afford a quality education, and it's an injustice. But how much money you can earn because of your degree is only one facet to weighing the benefits of an education. And, to me, it's a poor method of valuation.
        ms4720 15y ago
        Well first of all I do not equate education necessarily with college, education is a process and college is a place where that may or may not happen. My main point is that assuming large levels of debt should be approached as a business/investment decision, as should anything with such a large down side. And even if you are college material having $200,000 in debt and a degree in something that gets you a $35,000/year job is just not a reasonable thing to do. And with a debt/salary load like above college will be the best 4 years of your life, loan payments will see that it is so in the best case.
- hysterix 15y ago
  And who's fault is this for choosing to go to a private college? There are plenty of community colleges that are a viable alternative, quit bitching when their are plenty of cheaper alternatives available.
spindritf 15y ago
Firstly, it does, in Scandinavia just like everywhere else. Secondly, it does for a reason. Not just because they can charge (though obviously...), or that teachers/professors would like to eat something every once in a while, but also because getting the results is quite expensive. Take a look at the universities rankings[1] -- how many schools in the top ten aren't British or American? Before we get all smug about our educational systems largely free of exorbitant fees, arbitrary admissions, and racists nonsense like affirmative action (well, largely), we should take a look at the results Americans are getting. It's not all corruption and waste. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_ranking... and it doesn't really matter which you choose
- oskarth 15y ago
  For the record: going to university is free in Sweden (and probably the rest of Scandinavia) for the individual, which is the relevant metric here. Obviously someone has to pay, but the cost is not part of the equation when you're making the decision (other than the alternative cost for not working).
- bentlegen 15y ago
  You should also consider that the US is a much larger country, and therefore has many more universities up for consideration in these rankings.
  - SeanLuke 15y ago
    You're saying the US is much larger than the rest of the world put together? I smell some ill-reasoned statistics.
    - bentlegen 15y ago
      I didn't say that. Listen, if you want me to describe to you how biased these rankings are in favor of Western institutions, I'd be glad to do so. For example, a common metric is number of publications, for which the accepted journals are almost entirely Western (or US-based). And then you have scores that are based partially on (perceived) reputation, for which American schools will always come first. For the QS World University Rankings, this accounts for 40% of their final score.
Untitled 15y ago
Yes! It is not free to offer a university education. Either you pay (through taking out a loan), your parents pay or the taxpayer pay. Seeing as how many people waste time and money at university, I think it is good that they either waste their own or their parents' money. Probably a better system would be where the top 20% of universities are national and free (with competitive entry) and the rest is private.
- maigret 15y ago
  The thing is though, private education systems has shown to produce cost explosion as education is a needed thing and no one is controlling the costs. State financed education has a much better cost control. Like they don't build insanely expensive stadiums or put a grand piano in the cafeteria (seen this at a US university).
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  The problem with that is that it sets a precedent , basically saying "If you are poor , you better be a genius or you will have no qualifications and will work in mcdonalds"
hysterix 15y ago
How ironic, apparently in scandinavia they must not teach basic algebra, basic accounting, and basic tax law. There is no free lunch in the world, you indeed pay for university. The statement you make is so ironic because you are displaying an incredible amount of ignorance in basic math and taxes, thereby discrediting the scandinavian university system you are here defending!! I'm sitting here cracking up and can't stop laughing at your comment.

lbotos 15y ago

Welcome to America! Cash is king. My art school degree when said and done will cost somewhere near $72,000. That is just tuition. I can't wait to see what the "open" education platforms of the future bring.

ntkachov 15y ago
As much as people crap on art school an art degree can at least pay for itself as long as your willing to work for other, and not, say, make drawings of anime all day. Most of the anti-college rhetoric comes from 1 simple things. Cost of degree > Worth of degree. $200,000 for a degree which only nets a $35,000/yr job is starting to seem like a bad deal.
- rmk 15y ago
  Make that Cost of (Humanities) degree >> Worth of said degree Sad, but true. Perhaps humanities subjects are ripe for an online-learning revolution.
  - politician 15y ago
    I believe China has stopped paying for / blocked universities from offering degrees in certain humanities subjects based on the productivity argument.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
- gdubs 15y ago
  That's if you value the degree in terms of the salary you can garner after graduating, or believe that money is everything. There are simply some things that you cannot put a price on. College is not for everyone, but for many it can be an eye-opening experience that enriches lives in deep ways.
  - ms4720 15y ago
    Re: There are simply some things that you cannot put a price on. Debt that will follow you through bankruptcy is not one of them. I know of people who took exactly that attitude about college and it destroyed their lives. If you are not paying for college, or not paying much, it is true that it can be a fun 4 years and does not need to be considered a financial decisions. But when you are collecting more debt than an average mortgage you should really consider if the house you are buying is worth it.
    - gdubs 15y ago
      If someone is looking for a safe financial investment that provides guaranteed returns on the dollar, college isn't likely to rank high on that list. We seem to agree on that. I said that college isn't for everyone. My point was that equating worth or value directly to a dollar value return is probably a bad way to look at an education. Many people can't afford a quality education, and it's an injustice. But how much money you can earn because of your degree is only one facet to weighing the benefits of an education. And, to me, it's a poor method of valuation.
      - ms4720 15y ago
        Well first of all I do not equate education necessarily with college, education is a process and college is a place where that may or may not happen. My main point is that assuming large levels of debt should be approached as a business/investment decision, as should anything with such a large down side. And even if you are college material having $200,000 in debt and a degree in something that gets you a $35,000/year job is just not a reasonable thing to do. And with a debt/salary load like above college will be the best 4 years of your life, loan payments will see that it is so in the best case.
hysterix 15y ago
And who's fault is this for choosing to go to a private college? There are plenty of community colleges that are a viable alternative, quit bitching when their are plenty of cheaper alternatives available.

spindritf 15y ago

Firstly, it does, in Scandinavia just like everywhere else. Secondly, it does for a reason. Not just because they can charge (though obviously...), or that teachers/professors would like to eat something every once in a while, but also because getting the results is quite expensive. Take a look at the universities rankings[1] -- how many schools in the top ten aren't British or American? Before we get all smug about our educational systems largely free of exorbitant fees, arbitrary admissions, and racists nonsense like affirmative action (well, largely), we should take a look at the results Americans are getting. It's not all corruption and waste. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_and_university_ranking... and it doesn't really matter which you choose

oskarth 15y ago
For the record: going to university is free in Sweden (and probably the rest of Scandinavia) for the individual, which is the relevant metric here. Obviously someone has to pay, but the cost is not part of the equation when you're making the decision (other than the alternative cost for not working).
bentlegen 15y ago
You should also consider that the US is a much larger country, and therefore has many more universities up for consideration in these rankings.
- SeanLuke 15y ago
  You're saying the US is much larger than the rest of the world put together? I smell some ill-reasoned statistics.
  - bentlegen 15y ago
    I didn't say that. Listen, if you want me to describe to you how biased these rankings are in favor of Western institutions, I'd be glad to do so. For example, a common metric is number of publications, for which the accepted journals are almost entirely Western (or US-based). And then you have scores that are based partially on (perceived) reputation, for which American schools will always come first. For the QS World University Rankings, this accounts for 40% of their final score.

Untitled 15y ago

Yes! It is not free to offer a university education. Either you pay (through taking out a loan), your parents pay or the taxpayer pay. Seeing as how many people waste time and money at university, I think it is good that they either waste their own or their parents' money. Probably a better system would be where the top 20% of universities are national and free (with competitive entry) and the rest is private.

maigret 15y ago
The thing is though, private education systems has shown to produce cost explosion as education is a needed thing and no one is controlling the costs. State financed education has a much better cost control. Like they don't build insanely expensive stadiums or put a grand piano in the cafeteria (seen this at a US university).
jiggy2011 15y ago
The problem with that is that it sets a precedent , basically saying "If you are poor , you better be a genius or you will have no qualifications and will work in mcdonalds"

hysterix 15y ago

How ironic, apparently in scandinavia they must not teach basic algebra, basic accounting, and basic tax law. There is no free lunch in the world, you indeed pay for university. The statement you make is so ironic because you are displaying an incredible amount of ignorance in basic math and taxes, thereby discrediting the scandinavian university system you are here defending!! I'm sitting here cracking up and can't stop laughing at your comment.