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Don't bother. These whataboutism accounts pop up all the time on stories like this.

aurareturn 3y ago
And you use the “whataboutism” as your main argument for whenever someone isn’t anti-china. The world runs on reciprocity. Whataboutism is built into assumptions. It’s called fairness and it’s an intrinsic human trait.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  Fallacious thinking is in fact an intrinsic human trait, but to equate fallacious thinking with fairness is a little creepy. I’d also note while we are on the topic of anti-China, and you’ve lobbed anti Chinese out there - I’ll wager almost (almost!) everyone here, myself especially, isn’t anti anything about China or Chinese people. But that doesn’t mean we are pro the communist party’s policies - and frankly so are very few Chinese. The fact that forced tech transfer and industrial espionage is embarrassing to the Chinese government and sullies all success is no one’s fault but the Chinese governments, and that’s where it begins and ends. I’m no defender of the US government either, but that’s not even the topic here. I’ll be happy to engage on that topic in the relevant threads. That’s, after all, fair.
blackoil 3y ago
Whataboutism is shield of hypocrites. Ignore all atrocities and human rights abuse we are doing, only wrongs of country X are relevant.
- aurareturn 3y ago
  US media: China is wrong to use its military power to bully countries. Poster: But the US does it too and has done it for far longer and more often. Average HN reply: Omg, whataboutism.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    That is sort of the definition of the informal red herring fallacy whataboutism. It doesn’t mean the US hasn’t. It means it’s not related to China being wrong to use military power to bully countries. An awful lot of folks here agree it’s wrong for anyone to bully anyone in any context, especially nations bullying the people of another country. We are all, after all, people. But people citing a fallacy when a fallacy is used is fully appropriate, even if you really wish it wasn’t a fallacy.
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      I don't have a problem with the US bullying others. My problem is that people here on HN and in the west in general, demonizing China for doing the exact same thing when the US has done worse. They think it's ok to boycott Chinese products, but they won't boycott product from their own country. They will say that the Chinese government is evil, but is completely ok with the government of their own. They will say China has no right to bully Vietnam, but they will vote in politicians who advocate for war with just about anyone. It's hypocritical. Don't demonize China unless you're willing to demonize yourself. Hell, don't demonize China unless you read their point of view too. I'm sure you're only getting one POV.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > My problem is that people here on HN and in the west in general, demonizing China for doing the exact same thing when the US has done worse Er, no. Far more ink is spilled on the US being bad, or Western countries in general being bad, by people in the West. What you're saying is not true for HN, nor for the West in general.
      - speed_spread 3y ago
        Because China's government is the CCP, which is the sole political party of China, which is headed by a dictator, whose endgame is to ultimately have all power concentrated into his hands, forever. We're not demonizing Chinese people, Chinese culture, Chinese land or Chinese industry, but the forceful alignment of those things to serve a single entity over any other concern. The West, no matter how bad it can be, doesn't have _that_ problem. Elites come and go, grassroots revolutions have happened and will keep happening without major bloodshed.

And you use the “whataboutism” as your main argument for whenever someone isn’t anti-china. The world runs on reciprocity. Whataboutism is built into assumptions. It’s called fairness and it’s an intrinsic human trait.

fnordpiglet 3y ago
Fallacious thinking is in fact an intrinsic human trait, but to equate fallacious thinking with fairness is a little creepy. I’d also note while we are on the topic of anti-China, and you’ve lobbed anti Chinese out there - I’ll wager almost (almost!) everyone here, myself especially, isn’t anti anything about China or Chinese people. But that doesn’t mean we are pro the communist party’s policies - and frankly so are very few Chinese. The fact that forced tech transfer and industrial espionage is embarrassing to the Chinese government and sullies all success is no one’s fault but the Chinese governments, and that’s where it begins and ends. I’m no defender of the US government either, but that’s not even the topic here. I’ll be happy to engage on that topic in the relevant threads. That’s, after all, fair.

blackoil 3y ago

Whataboutism is shield of hypocrites. Ignore all atrocities and human rights abuse we are doing, only wrongs of country X are relevant.

aurareturn 3y ago
US media: China is wrong to use its military power to bully countries. Poster: But the US does it too and has done it for far longer and more often. Average HN reply: Omg, whataboutism.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  That is sort of the definition of the informal red herring fallacy whataboutism. It doesn’t mean the US hasn’t. It means it’s not related to China being wrong to use military power to bully countries. An awful lot of folks here agree it’s wrong for anyone to bully anyone in any context, especially nations bullying the people of another country. We are all, after all, people. But people citing a fallacy when a fallacy is used is fully appropriate, even if you really wish it wasn’t a fallacy.
  - aurareturn 3y ago
    I don't have a problem with the US bullying others. My problem is that people here on HN and in the west in general, demonizing China for doing the exact same thing when the US has done worse. They think it's ok to boycott Chinese products, but they won't boycott product from their own country. They will say that the Chinese government is evil, but is completely ok with the government of their own. They will say China has no right to bully Vietnam, but they will vote in politicians who advocate for war with just about anyone. It's hypocritical. Don't demonize China unless you're willing to demonize yourself. Hell, don't demonize China unless you read their point of view too. I'm sure you're only getting one POV.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > My problem is that people here on HN and in the west in general, demonizing China for doing the exact same thing when the US has done worse Er, no. Far more ink is spilled on the US being bad, or Western countries in general being bad, by people in the West. What you're saying is not true for HN, nor for the West in general.
    - speed_spread 3y ago
      Because China's government is the CCP, which is the sole political party of China, which is headed by a dictator, whose endgame is to ultimately have all power concentrated into his hands, forever. We're not demonizing Chinese people, Chinese culture, Chinese land or Chinese industry, but the forceful alignment of those things to serve a single entity over any other concern. The West, no matter how bad it can be, doesn't have _that_ problem. Elites come and go, grassroots revolutions have happened and will keep happening without major bloodshed.