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"Hippy", "green", "woke": as time goes on, names change, but the battles of us vs them don't. There's a lot of partisan discussion around the idea of pushing ba
by bdcravens 3y ago
"Hippy", "green", "woke": as time goes on, names change, but the battles of us vs them don't. There's a lot of partisan discussion around the idea of pushing back and "reopening" the spigot of oil and pushing back on EVs, for example.
- Justsignedup 3y agoIt's always the battle of should someone who has access to something valuable but harmful have the ability to use it and have society clean up the consequences. When phrased this way it sounds pretty darn easy of a choice, but reality never phrases it that way and that person had money to bribe politicians. And so we struggle. Because those with wealth do not want to give up their wealth.
- rootusrootus 3y agoIt's too bad, I hoped EVs were one thing everyone could agree on. Maybe because it's good for the environment. Or because it's good for energy independence.
- bdcravens 3y agoPerhaps Elon can be the bridge there, since he's seen as a bit of a free speech messiah by the right. If nothing else, I'd think the "red-blooded" crowd would love the speed that EVs give you.
- LastTrain 3y agoThat is his whole play - more than anything, US conservatives want liberals to be humiliated and angry, and Elon delivers, and that is the ONLY way owning an EV can be palatable to that crowd.
- pbj1968 3y agoThey will convert at precisely the moment it makes economic sense.
- rootusrootus 3y agoSome will. My brother in law is a hardcore Trump supporter and he drives a Chevy Bolt. The TCO on that car beats every ICE vehicle. Every last one. If it were just economics, EVs are a winner for the majority of average folks already. It's not that simple. Ideology is more important.
- bdcravens 3y agoThere are those who may not - those who see the EV subsidies as a symptom of the "woke mindvirus" and see fighting it as a matter of fighting for their overall way of life. They see the mandates some states are pushing as an assault on freedom, and a communist incursion, and the use of petroleum as a patriotic exercise.
- the_third_wave 3y agoRemove the partisan blather and you're on to something. It is the mandates, the top-down control based on incomplete and often false premises and the holier-than-thou attitude that drives people away from these "moon shot projects". Once EVs make economical and practical sense people will flock to them but that will take a while a while for many people, especially those with longer commutes and those who live in the more northerly/wintry areas. If you live in places where the sun always shines and have the space for a good-sized solar array it already makes sense, elsewhere - not so much.
- deprecative 3y agoSimple: remove all subsidies for ICE cars and everything they use.
- LastTrain 3y agoYeah… because f350s make so much economic sense…
- bdcravens 3y agoI don't really believe it, but I wouldn't be entirely shocked if we learn MAGA Elon was just a persona who adopted to win over the relatively untapped market.
- lotsoweiners 3y agoI think that is just what you’re being led to believe. I meet pretty hardcore conservatives all the time who have Teslas or other EVs. Hell, I can walk to the end of my street and there is a front door covered with a large Trump flag that has 2 EVs, a Model 3 and some Ford, in the garage.
- LastTrain 3y agoNo one has 'led' me to believe this because I've not heard anyone else say it. If you are trying to tell me that US conservatives have not politicized renewable energy in general and EV ownership in particular you are being naïve or dishonest. Musk is a salesman and has exploited this by doing what has worked for US conservatives since Rush Limbaugh- acting stupid and obnoxious.
- Baeocystin 3y agoI work with a lot of relatively conservative folks. The F-150 Lightning is making huge waves in that crowd, in a positive way. One of them owns a landscaping company, and just swapped out their order of a half dozen regular trucks over to the electric ones. FWIW.
- sergers 3y agoIn the long run it will be fine, but likely they got a good deal to help clear out inventory. Few Ford dealer workers I know have been Talking about the buildup of stock of f150 lightning and mache at dealerships. People are turning down the purchases from preorder due to issues with battery or otherwise that is plaguing their full electric. 6 months ago you had to be on a long waiting list, now you can find one at alot of lots.
- beached_whale 3y agoI wonder how much not needing a generator helps too.
- Baeocystin 3y agoIt's a big deal to many of them. For the landscapers in particular, being able to fast charge the pro-level electric packs for leafblowers, weed whackers, etc in the frunk is a big part of it as well. From what I understand, there are contracts here in the Bay Area that pay more if the landscaping crew is electrified.
- Tanoc 3y agoThere's a subset of the anti-EV crowd that's against EVs not because they're brodozer drivers, but because they realize individual vehicle ownership is the other half of the problem. EVs still cost resources that are harmful to harvest outsized relative to their use thanks to strip mining and the chemical process used to separate cobalt from manganese at a mass scale. Those people, myself included, believe that mass transit needs to make a resurgence instead of everyone switching to EVs. I even get annoyed seeing EV "bicycles" that weigh as much as the riders and cost as much as a scooter because I think they're wastes of resources used to dodge taxes and pedestrian right of way laws regarding motorcycles.
- psunavy03 3y agoIndividual vehicle ownership is not a "problem." The United States is not Europe, both from a cultural perspective and a geographical one. You can either propose unrealistic solutions like "push mass transit hard and increase density," or you can meet people where they are and realize America is a big, big country with a tradition of individual freedom. People don't necessarily want to live in a big city, go only where the buses and trains go, and never have the chance to go on road trips or vacations to the mountains or the beach. Better for the climate to do this via battery power and not fossil fuels, because it's going to happen.
- gonzo41 3y agoI'm very pro ebike. But some American classes of ebikes are just electric motorcycles with a set of crank arms for show. Pedelec bikes are ebikes. Everything else is with a throttle is a scooter Cycling has more benefits than replacing cars. It connects us with joyful movement. And the infrastructure is cheaper to build and extend compared to railways.
- water-data-dude 3y agoI’m really torn on EVs now because of all the freaking data collection (every new car, not just EVs). I want to do what I can to reduce how much I’m contributing to climate change, but I still might get another old car when this one goes because I don’t want to be spied on.
- the_third_wave 3y agoIf you're into building things yourself you could convert an older ICE car to an electric by swapping out the engine for an electric motor plus the necessary electronics, removing the tank and replacing it with batteries and adding more batteries wherever they fit - you'll need them to get a reasonable range. Some companies make kits to do this, otherwise there are plenty of DIY forums where these types of activities are discussed.
- xg15 3y ago> removing the tank and replacing it with batteries and adding more batteries wherever they fit - you'll need them to get a reasonable range Is this actually doable? I thought in modern EVs, the battery takes up half the chassis. In a "retrofitted" EV, you'll have lots of space (and therefore battery capacity) taken up by mechanical systems which are essential for a central motor, but relatively useless if you could just use multiple electric motors.
- the_third_wave 3y agoYes, it is doable [1] but these conversions for the most part do not get the range expected from factory-made EVs. From what I gather the range will vary from ~120km (small city car) to ~350 km. [1] https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/choosing/electric-car-conversion-how-to-convert-a-car-to-electric/ https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/choosing/electric-...
- mlyle 3y agoIn addition to other objections, there's the people who think that EVs don't hit every use case yet, and they use a lot of rare earth metals, etc... and that you can get 90% of the benefit with a PHEV (and build/sell a lot more PHEVs with current resources). IMO, we're going to need a lot of different approaches to solve climate. EVs, PHEVs, reduction of use of single-occupant vehicles, more transit, more biking, more e-bikes, blah blah blah.
- lotsoweiners 3y agoIs woke really the modern version of hippie/green? I feel like a lot of people myself included can support and appreciate environmental issues but have no interest in this woke culture nonsense.
- trilbyglens 3y agoHippies were much more about social inclusion than environmental issues though at the time. So I think yes the woke movement is definitely a descent of the hippy movement. Wokism has a stronger focus on racial elements, bit that was definitely present in the 60s too, just less militant in the hippy movement than it was in the black power movement. Possibly you could argue that wokism fuses black power and hippyism.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> Hippies were much more about social inclusion than environmental issues though at the time. I would argue that they weren't, as a movement, about either, but more inward-directed self-discovery. They were contemporaries with both movements for social inclusion (the civil rights movement) and the beginnings of environmentalism as a mass social movement, and were distinct from both of those kinds of activist movements. They had more in common and probably more overlap with the environmentalist movement (like the hippies, a predominantly white, middle-class movement.) “Wokism” isn’t an actual movement, its just a replacement name for “political correctness” used as a label for same right-wing general-purpose boogeyman that PC served as a label for from the late 1970s until the recent replacement with first and briefly “critical race theory” and, when that proved a bit cumbersome as a generic label, “wokism”.
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- jncfhnb 3y agoThat’s largely because woke culture is not a real thing. It is vastly inflated by the same folks that said similar things about hippies. The extreme views that are given the most attention are fringe and not popular.
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- Anon_Forever 3y ago[flagged]
- stonogo 3y agoI'm unable to interpret the text in either of your references in a manner which supports your "get rid of solar panels" claim.
- chownie 3y agoCtrl+f "woke" no results in the given URL, for anyone else wondering what the point of those non sequitur is.
- Anon_Forever 3y agoOf course you won't find "woke" in the link above, the "woke" are scared shitless of being named, because once something can be named, it can be damned. They'd never self identify, they use dog whistles instead. Poor attempt at shaping the narrative, for anyone else wondering what the point of those non sequitur is.
- chownie 3y agoIsn't you pulling the word "woke" out of nowhere, unrelated to the topics you've actually linked to, trying to invoke a narrative? Having had a quick glance at your past comment history, that you're trying so hard to push an angle is not surprising.
- mock-possum 3y agoHow are solar panels inequitable?
- Anon_Forever 3y agoFrom TFA linked above: As a NEM 3.0 proposed decision looms, here are four key-points to consider: -Rooftop solar customers are pushing electric system costs onto non-solar customers -NEM benefits have largely gone to wealthier customers -It is vital to equity and climate progress to ensure affordable electric rates -Smart policy can support the continued growth of rooftop solar while achieving more equitable outcomes