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I don't think I've ever seen PVC/CPVC pipe used for water in the UK, only ever seen it used for electrical conduits. Most indoor water pipes are still copper b

I don't think I've ever seen PVC/CPVC pipe used for water in the UK, only ever seen it used for electrical conduits. Most indoor water pipes are still copper but PEX is becoming more popular. Outdoor is now nearly always MDPE.

amluto 3y ago
Huh. In the US, HDPE outdoors is somewhat common in larger installations and for utilities, and PVC is used for almost all landscape irrigation. Galvanized steel is still surprisingly common indoors and outdoors despite its near complete lack of redeeming features. Indoors, fancy contractors seem to prefer copper and less fancy contractors seem to prefer PEX. Those fancy copper-using contractors seem to mostly mess up and use non-water-soluble flux, which is against code and is very much a mistake on cold water pipes. Residential fire sprinkler pipes are almost always CPVC. PEX is permitted in most jurisdictions if the pressure is regulated, but almost no one uses it despite being much less fiddly than CPVC. (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.)
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Irrigation is PVC in parts of the US, but black poly in others. I’m in New England where black poly is much more common (as it’s somewhat more freeze breakage resistant, even though we still blow them out). PVC is more common in areas with mild winters.
- dessimus 3y ago
  > (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.) Because steel can withstand much higher temperatures than CPVC, PVC, or Pex, by at least an order of magnitude, not to mention withstand much higher water pressure too.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    And also commercial fire pipes are often dry (they're pressurized with air or carbon dioxide, and when the sprinkler glass breaks, then the water flows in).
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  Commercial fire sprinkler pipes are steel because it has a high melting point, it’s durable, and it’s less expensive than copper or brass. The water pressure in a fire sprinkler system can be 100-200 psi.
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Landscape irrigation isn't that common in a domestic setting here. We get plenty of rain normally, but in the (increasingly common) periods of drought, most people just let their lawns dry out and manually water the flowers. Domestic fire sprinklers are also, sadly, quite uncommon. They've started to become more common in flats, particularly since Grenfell, but still, I've never had cause to touch the pipework for one. Fire safety in the UK is pretty poor compared to the USA. Copper has has been the dominant form of indoor plumbing for ages here, so every plumber knows how to work with it. It's still seen as the preferred option, and most people, myself included, consider PEX as a cheap alternative. As far as joints go, compression fit seems to maybe be more popular now than soldering for domestic plumbers due to speed of installation, but I personally prefer soldering as I've had bad luck with compression fittings developing weeps after years. Push fit has been making some inroads - but I wouldn't trust it myself!
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    > Fire safety in the UK is pretty poor compared to the USA. The tighter fire regulations in the US are a result of building everything from far more combustible materials. Even so, the fire death rate in the US is more than double that of the UK, 11/million vs 5/million annually. Living in California it's probably a good thing my home is made of wood rather than bricks if there is ever an earthquake, but coming from the UK it all seems a bit flimsy!
  - amluto 3y ago
    John Guest has been making what seem to be very nice push-to-connect fittings in the UK for a long time. I’ve only used the US versions, and I’ve never seen one fail. If you avoid putting bending stress on them, they seem quite secure. John Guest also has some very nice “ProLock” build-your-own-manifold fittings. For what it’s worth, there are a couple of applications for which plastic or stainless steel are the only credible choices. Carbonated water is dangerous when in contact with copper or brass, and boiler condensate (which is basically carbonated water) will rapidly destroy copper or brass. So your boiler condensate drainage system generally ought to be made entirely of plastic. I’ve personally had some rather impressive failures of copper pipe due, I think, to aggressive water at excessive velocity. Copper’s ability to resist corrosion is finicky.

amluto 3y ago

Huh. In the US, HDPE outdoors is somewhat common in larger installations and for utilities, and PVC is used for almost all landscape irrigation. Galvanized steel is still surprisingly common indoors and outdoors despite its near complete lack of redeeming features. Indoors, fancy contractors seem to prefer copper and less fancy contractors seem to prefer PEX. Those fancy copper-using contractors seem to mostly mess up and use non-water-soluble flux, which is against code and is very much a mistake on cold water pipes. Residential fire sprinkler pipes are almost always CPVC. PEX is permitted in most jurisdictions if the pressure is regulated, but almost no one uses it despite being much less fiddly than CPVC. (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.)

sokoloff 3y ago
Irrigation is PVC in parts of the US, but black poly in others. I’m in New England where black poly is much more common (as it’s somewhat more freeze breakage resistant, even though we still blow them out). PVC is more common in areas with mild winters.
dessimus 3y ago
> (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.) Because steel can withstand much higher temperatures than CPVC, PVC, or Pex, by at least an order of magnitude, not to mention withstand much higher water pressure too.
- bombcar 3y ago
  And also commercial fire pipes are often dry (they're pressurized with air or carbon dioxide, and when the sprinkler glass breaks, then the water flows in).
quickthrowman 3y ago
Commercial fire sprinkler pipes are steel because it has a high melting point, it’s durable, and it’s less expensive than copper or brass. The water pressure in a fire sprinkler system can be 100-200 psi.
cameronh90 3y ago
Landscape irrigation isn't that common in a domestic setting here. We get plenty of rain normally, but in the (increasingly common) periods of drought, most people just let their lawns dry out and manually water the flowers. Domestic fire sprinklers are also, sadly, quite uncommon. They've started to become more common in flats, particularly since Grenfell, but still, I've never had cause to touch the pipework for one. Fire safety in the UK is pretty poor compared to the USA. Copper has has been the dominant form of indoor plumbing for ages here, so every plumber knows how to work with it. It's still seen as the preferred option, and most people, myself included, consider PEX as a cheap alternative. As far as joints go, compression fit seems to maybe be more popular now than soldering for domestic plumbers due to speed of installation, but I personally prefer soldering as I've had bad luck with compression fittings developing weeps after years. Push fit has been making some inroads - but I wouldn't trust it myself!
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  > Fire safety in the UK is pretty poor compared to the USA. The tighter fire regulations in the US are a result of building everything from far more combustible materials. Even so, the fire death rate in the US is more than double that of the UK, 11/million vs 5/million annually. Living in California it's probably a good thing my home is made of wood rather than bricks if there is ever an earthquake, but coming from the UK it all seems a bit flimsy!
- amluto 3y ago
  John Guest has been making what seem to be very nice push-to-connect fittings in the UK for a long time. I’ve only used the US versions, and I’ve never seen one fail. If you avoid putting bending stress on them, they seem quite secure. John Guest also has some very nice “ProLock” build-your-own-manifold fittings. For what it’s worth, there are a couple of applications for which plastic or stainless steel are the only credible choices. Carbonated water is dangerous when in contact with copper or brass, and boiler condensate (which is basically carbonated water) will rapidly destroy copper or brass. So your boiler condensate drainage system generally ought to be made entirely of plastic. I’ve personally had some rather impressive failures of copper pipe due, I think, to aggressive water at excessive velocity. Copper’s ability to resist corrosion is finicky.