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Interestingly, plumbing your house with PVC water pipe is not a fantastic idea and is not allowed under most plumbing codes. The specific issue is that PVC lose
by amluto 3y ago
Interestingly, plumbing your house with PVC water pipe is not a fantastic idea and is not allowed under most plumbing codes. The specific issue is that PVC loses strength at higher temperatures, so performance at household water pressures with household hot water is somewhat marginal. Manufacturers don’t rate their pipe at all above 140 degrees F. Having your pipe burst when you run hot water through it is undesirable, and inspectors can’t easily tell whether a pipe is a hot water pipe or a cold water pipe, so PVC is generally not permitted for indoor potable use.
CPVC has much better hot water performance, isn’t terribly hard to find, and glues just like PVC as long as you use the right glue.
(Very confusingly, CPVC pipe is usually sold in “copper tube size” instead of Schedule 40/80. But this means that many push-to-connect fittings work on CPVC pipe.)
- cameronh90 3y agoI don't think I've ever seen PVC/CPVC pipe used for water in the UK, only ever seen it used for electrical conduits. Most indoor water pipes are still copper but PEX is becoming more popular. Outdoor is now nearly always MDPE.
- amluto 3y agoHuh. In the US, HDPE outdoors is somewhat common in larger installations and for utilities, and PVC is used for almost all landscape irrigation. Galvanized steel is still surprisingly common indoors and outdoors despite its near complete lack of redeeming features. Indoors, fancy contractors seem to prefer copper and less fancy contractors seem to prefer PEX. Those fancy copper-using contractors seem to mostly mess up and use non-water-soluble flux, which is against code and is very much a mistake on cold water pipes. Residential fire sprinkler pipes are almost always CPVC. PEX is permitted in most jurisdictions if the pressure is regulated, but almost no one uses it despite being much less fiddly than CPVC. (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.)
- sokoloff 3y agoIrrigation is PVC in parts of the US, but black poly in others. I’m in New England where black poly is much more common (as it’s somewhat more freeze breakage resistant, even though we still blow them out). PVC is more common in areas with mild winters.
- dessimus 3y ago> (Commercial fire sprinkler pipes seem to be mostly steel (!). I don’t know why. It always seems like a dubious idea to me.) Because steel can withstand much higher temperatures than CPVC, PVC, or Pex, by at least an order of magnitude, not to mention withstand much higher water pressure too.
- bombcar 3y agoAnd also commercial fire pipes are often dry (they're pressurized with air or carbon dioxide, and when the sprinkler glass breaks, then the water flows in).
- quickthrowman 3y agoCommercial fire sprinkler pipes are steel because it has a high melting point, it’s durable, and it’s less expensive than copper or brass. The water pressure in a fire sprinkler system can be 100-200 psi.
- cameronh90 3y agoLandscape irrigation isn't that common in a domestic setting here. We get plenty of rain normally, but in the (increasingly common) periods of drought, most people just let their lawns dry out and manually water the flowers. Domestic fire sprinklers are also, sadly, quite uncommon. They've started to become more common in flats, particularly since Grenfell, but still, I've never had cause to touch the pipework for one. Fire safety in the UK is pretty poor compared to the USA. Copper has has been the dominant form of indoor plumbing for ages here, so every plumber knows how to work with it. It's still seen as the preferred option, and most people, myself included, consider PEX as a cheap alternative. As far as joints go, compression fit seems to maybe be more popular now than soldering for domestic plumbers due to speed of installation, but I personally prefer soldering as I've had bad luck with compression fittings developing weeps after years. Push fit has been making some inroads - but I wouldn't trust it myself!
- genter 3y agoCPVC might be better than PVC, but it's still way worse than copper or pex. Both PVC and CPVC will shatter if stressed beyond it's yield strength. Go hit it with a hammer, and compare that to hitting a copper pipe or pex. This is also the reason why pvc is super dangerous for compressed air.
- scotty79 3y agoThe only thing I really trust is pex-alu-pex. Flexible thin aluminum pipe with plastic on the inside and the outside.
- briHass 3y agoIt's certainly not 'way worse'. CPVC/PVC has its advantages and disadvantages, just like every other piping method. CPVC can become less pliable over time, particularly for hot water, but properly (by code) supported/strapped and glued, it can last for decades. It, like PEX, should be run to a well-secured, copper stub out where it sticks out of the wall in an area where it could be damaged. Copper is not without its disadvantages: it's outrageous expensive as of late, soldering can be dangerous (banned in some cases due to fire risk), it takes longer to install than most other options, and some water supplies have a composition that leads to premature failures. PEX is a universe of options: PEX-A, PEX-B, crimp rings, clamps, plastic/brass fittings, etc. It also needs to be properly installed - PEX B has very specific locations for the crimp/clamp rings on the fitting, and the difference between a proper crimp/clamp and a failure waiting to happen is very subtle.
- seabrookmx 3y agoIn my experience 99% of indoor plumbing in new builds in Canada (US too I believe) is PEX, not (C)PVC. PVC is common in sewage, drainage, and as conduit.
- amluto 3y agoPVC is quite common for water utility use in the US in the form of AWWA C900. I once said hi to the project engineer of a water main replacement project (he was walking around the site), and he waxed poetic about C900 pipe. It’s installed using crowbars, and the joints need to be externally restrained. Those dinky 1” pipes in your house develop quite modest tension at 100psi. 8” underground pipes are a whole different story.
- LegitShady 3y agoWhenever there are elevation changes for underground pressurized pipes there are usually cast in place concrete thrust blocks that take the load from the pipe and give more soil area to push against, minimizing movement. Otherwise you're just depending on friction. But public infrastructure that wants to move is always scary conceptually
- bboygravity 3y agoCopper is toxic to microbes, plastics are not. Relevant for salmonella for example. This alone would be reason for me to just use copper.
- rcme 3y agoMost pipes get coated with minerals so you’re not really getting much benefit from the copper.
- VBprogrammer 3y agoThis seems like borderline paranoia. Water travels potentially dozens of miles from the place where it is cleaned and treated with chlorine to kill bugs. The vast majority of that in non-copper pipes. The last few feet inside your house seems unlikely to change anything.
- xeonmc 3y agoYes but the dozens of miles is moving water whereas the last few feet in you house is stale water.
- geomark 3y agoIn the country I live virtually every house is plumbed with PVC. Works great and only fails if done extremely poorly. Of course, they don't run hot water through it. Most people here think it is bizarre to have a big tank of hot water at one end of the house (often the garage) that is sent throughout the house, rather than having instant hot water heaters at the point of use.
- pimlottc 3y agoThe efficiency of hot water heaters is actually surprisingly good. A modern insulated tank retains heat very well. And it's more flexible for heating options since the water can be heated slowly over time. You can now get heat pump water heaters that are more efficient than tankless heaters. [0] Water heaters are pretty clever, in a low-tech sort of way. Technology Connections did a good video about them recently. [1] 0: https://livefreehc.com/blog/heat-pump-water-heater-vs-tankless/ https://livefreehc.com/blog/heat-pump-water-heater-vs-tankle... 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm7L-2J52GU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm7L-2J52GU