5 ms·
If there's such an easy biological mechanism to indicate "this one is fine", then I'm surprised it isn't being exploited by infectious agents already. Imagine
by mabbo 3y ago
If there's such an easy biological mechanism to indicate "this one is fine", then I'm surprised it isn't being exploited by infectious agents already.
Imagine a virus that causes cells to also produce proteins that tell the immune system the virus is a friend.
- EwanG 3y agoI seem to recall that this is a known "side effect" of measles where it removes many immunities if you catch it.
- ccooffee 3y agoHere's a 2019 article, "Study suggests how measles depletes body’s immune memory"[0] which (despite the title) seems to quantify the percentage of antibody arsenal that is lost after a measles infection. Sadly, I haven't had luck finding resources to answer "by what mechanism does measles cause antibody memory to be lost?", but I've got a good thing to ponder for the weekend. Thanks. :) [0] https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/10/how-measles-wipes-out-the-bodys-immune-memory/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/10/how-measles-w...
- pazimzadeh 3y agoAlso, HIV depletes your T cells
- ianlevesque 3y agoAnd SARS-CoV-2, unfortunately.
- ekianjo 3y ago?? 99.9% of people recover just fine and surely they still have their T cells
- ianlevesque 3y agoIt’s probably a waste of breath on this forum at this point, but look it up, and how long it takes even HIV infected individuals to become clinically immunodeficient.
- forgetfreeman 3y agoHow confident are you in your position? Literally 30 seconds spent searching: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-022-00936-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41418-022-00936-x
- Shugarl 3y agoI've only skimmed it, but doesn't the article you linked indicate that it is only true for severe/ life-threatening cases of COVID-19?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- forgetfreeman 3y agoDoesn't matter, it shows that covid can deplete t-cells as claimed up-thread.
- ekianjo 3y agoextreme cases of covid is not relevant for 99.9% of people so that's sufficiently close enough to say your claim is exaggerated. Sure, colds can kill too, but we don't treat them the same as Ebola.
- forgetfreeman 3y agoThe claim that a thing happens is not invalidated by it's relative frequency. You don't get to pretend lightning doesn't exist despite the relative rarity of people being hit by it.
- Izkata 3y agoHere you go: https://asm.org/Articles/2019/May/Measles-and-Immune-Amnesia https://asm.org/Articles/2019/May/Measles-and-Immune-Amnesia Very short version: it infects the tissue that create the cells that contain or immune memory, replacing them with versions that only know about the measles virus. Sounds like it's not permanent, though the article doesn't make it clear whether it's recovery or re-learning.
- simondotau 3y agoOur immune system is quite aggressive with garbage collection and can picky about what pathogens it chooses to remember. This behaviour makes sense on the hypothesis that our immune system has a "storage limit" for immunities. It doesn't make sense if the immunity memory is unlimited. (The reason why many vaccines require boosters is that without the repeat exposure, our immune system decides it doesn't need to remember about that particular pathogen.)
- pazimzadeh 3y agoThere are many such signals and they are already being exploited by pathogens. Such things are also exploited by tumors. That's why figuring out hard basic immunology problems like transplantation (while managing associated infections) will probably generate knowledge that is likely to help cure cancer, and vice versa. A lot of the time glycans (sugars) are a key part of what makes something look like self vs non-self. Regulatory T cells and infection: a dangerous necessity https://www.nature.com/articles/nri2189 https://www.nature.com/articles/nri2189 Sialic acid utilization by bacterial pathogens https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/micro/10.1099/mic.0.2007/009480-0#tab2 https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/micro/1... Hallmarks of glycosylation in cancer https://www.oncotarget.com/article/8155/text/ https://www.oncotarget.com/article/8155/text/
- DoreenMichele 3y agoTrypanosomas change their protein markers to hide from the immune system. My recollection is this is why you can't create a vaccine for them.
- refurb 3y agoThere already are diseases that hide from the immune system, things like hepatitis B, herpes, shingles. It’s nothing new.
- Etrnl_President 3y agoCould we vaccinate Herpes to forget how to latch on to cells?
- refurb 3y agoNot really. The current approach is to try and find an antigen on the herpes virus that the virus can't stop the immune system from recognizing. Or use antivirals to stop the reproduction process, and the virus eventually dies. That's the approach with hepatitis C.
- vGPU 3y agoNo. If you create a strain of a disease that is less persistent, it would obviously be wiped out almost instantly by basic natural selection.
- jokowueu 3y agoSome gut parasites release immunosuppressants to protect themselves , it's also actively being traild on humans who suffer from autoimmune gut diseases