>It's funny you keep referring to Java as the example for over-engineered code. That's true if you look at the built-in stuff, but if you look at frameworks lik

>It's funny you keep referring to Java as the example for over-engineered code. That's true if you look at the built-in stuff, but if you look at frameworks like Play, it's not so bad. Yes, but the above roughly translates to: "if you look at Java OUTLIER frameworks, it's not so bad".