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American bully XL dogs to be banned, Sunak says
- bitcharmer 3y agoAs the saying goes, better late than never. I hope the rest of the world follows suit soon.
- brianjking 3y ago[flagged]
- bitcharmer 3y agoStatistics
- brianjking 3y ago.
- bitcharmer 3y agoHere's a few links if you've spent the last few years under a rock: Wikipedia page on fatal incidents in UK alone: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom#2020%E2%80%93present https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in... Two minutes worth of googling: Children: 5-month old and 2 year old https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tragic-pit-bull-attack-claims-baby-and-toddler-leaves-their-mother-injured/ar-AA12K7oK https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tragic-pit-bull-attack-cla... 26 day old infant https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-mother-charged-pit-bull-mix-kills-infant-son https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-mother-charged-pit-bull-m... 4 year old attacked, mom dies defending https://nypost.com/2021/12/20/mom-has-arms-ripped-dies-stopping-pit-bull-from-attacking-son/ https://nypost.com/2021/12/20/mom-has-arms-ripped-dies-stopp... ever menacing 5 day old https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-infant-dies-after-pit-bull-attacks-her-in-crib-police-say https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-infant-dies-after-pit-bul... pitbull puppy chews fingers off infant https://nbc-2.com/news/2023/06/20/port-charlotte-woman-arrested-for-child-neglect-after-pit-bull-bites-off-babys-fingers/ https://nbc-2.com/news/2023/06/20/port-charlotte-woman-arres... Elderly: 70 year old woman became a snack https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/long-island-woman-mauled-to-death-by-her-pit-bull/ https://nypost.com/2022/07/27/long-island-woman-mauled-to-de... 70 year old man gets mauled https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dog-owner-speaks-after-pitbull-mauls-elderly-man-in-montgomery-county https://www.fox5dc.com/news/dog-owner-speaks-after-pitbull-m... mauls elderly couple, bites animal control https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/pit-bull-had-history-of-aggression-before-attack-on-elderly-rocky-mount-couple-animal-control-officer-reports-show/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/pit-bull-had-history-o... 89 year old woman dies, 12 year old attacked https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/colorado/articles/2022-09-19/elderly-woman-dies-after-pit-bull-attack-at-denver-area-home https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/colorado/articles/20... 67 year old took a walk, gets face eaten https://news.yahoo.com/had-him-face-elderly-asian-173504735.html https://news.yahoo.com/had-him-face-elderly-asian-173504735.... Women: 25 year old mauled in elevator https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/video-shows-columbian-woman-mauled-by-pit-bull-in-elevator/ https://nypost.com/2022/03/24/video-shows-columbian-woman-ma... 19 year old woman and small dog attacked https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/21/amazon-driver-fights-off-pit-bull-attack-las-vegas-woman-small-dog/8984488002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/21/amazon... 39 year old woman, nothing but bone left on arm https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/deputy-recounts-vicious-south-carolina-pit-bull-attack/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/deputy-recounts-vicious-south-... 59 year old woman killed by her babies https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-fatal-attack-west-el-paso-texas-two-dogs-kill-owner-1611324 https://www.newsweek.com/pit-bull-fatal-attack-west-el-paso-... 28 year old dog-sitter killed https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-woman-killed-dog-attack-pit-bull-1603228 https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-woman-killed-dog-attack-pi...
- brianjking 3y agoSo where is the statistical evidence that says this is due to any given breed? Correlation does not equal causation.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago>Can we ban all humans as a few humans have killed someone? Most societies give humans more rights than other animals.
- throwaway290 3y agoYour turn. Citations for deaths by other breeds. Let's see them.
- brianjking 3y ago.
- iancmceachern 3y agoHere you go: "Between 2013 and 2021, Pitbulls Were Involved in the Most Dog Bites in 20 States. In many states, pit bulls are responsible for almost half of all dog bite injuries." "Research conducted in Harris County, Texas, also concluded that pit bull bite incidents were 213% more likely to be severe than other breeds." https://worldanimalfoundation.org/dogs/pitbull-statistics/#:~:text=20.,Dog%20Bites%20in%2020%20States&text=In%20many%20states%2C%20pit%20bulls,be%20severe%20than%20other%20breeds https://worldanimalfoundation.org/dogs/pitbull-statistics/#:....
- mock-possum 3y agoSmall dogs are more aggressive, big dogs can do more damage. Ultimately, it’s a matter of training - how are they raised? - and a matter of the owner maintaining control. I really don’t believe in the whole “some breeds are inherently evil” thing.
- gongdzhauh 3y agoI used to think this, but then I talked to a doctor friend and they explained that most of the dog bites they see in their hospital come from pit bulls with good owners. The dogs had never acted out in the past and were loving family dogs, until something snapped and out of seemingly nowhere the dog attacked someone. The statistics on dog bites in many countries are also pretty clear that some breeds, like pit bulls and German shepherds are responsible for a disproportionate amount of attacks on humans. So while the great majority of pit bulls are loving dogs without any aggression, I would never take the risk of owning one.
- genter 3y agoI've had multiple family members and close friends with pit bulls. They are all extremely affectionate, loving dogs. I've also seen several of the aforementioned dogs turn aggressive in the blink of an eye. I think what makes them so dangerous is that people let their guard down because they think that their dog is special and not aggressive.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoWhat makes them dangerous is that they have the capacity to cause massive amounts of damage with no recourse unless people have a knife or gun nearby. We do not let people walk around society with hyenas and tigers and lions and wolves and chimpanzees. What makes a dog with "pit" or "bull" in its name any different? And maybe this applies to other dog breeds too, I am not a dog person, but the point is if an animal is capable of causing serious harm to people, then society has an interest in restricting its population where people do not want to worry about being attacked by animals.
- 3y ago
- sky_rw 3y agoIm not a fan of the premise that a small percentage of a population being responsible for an outsized percentage of violence is a result of their breeding. It's the environment and socialization factors that drive this.
- bitcharmer 3y agoIt's time to stop spreading this false narrative. It's genuinely baffling how many people will disregard hard evidence and statistics simply because it doesn't fit their world view.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- arp242 3y agoFact remains these dogs are literally killing people; over 50% of deaths in recent years. I don't care one iota if it's "breeding" or "environment and socialization factors" or "CIA dog mind control"; this is a problem and these people remain dead.
- adamckay 3y ago> It's the environment and socialization factors that drive this. Then why is it overwhelmingly this breed that attacking people? We accept that certain breeds have innate instincts and traits - border collies herd, labradors retrieve, greyhounds run, pointers point, small terriers chase - but you argue that this breed of dog that was (when you trace its lineage [1]) originally bred to bring down bulls and be aggressive and fight can't possibly be aggressive because of its breed? It's been recently reported that half of all of these XL Bully dogs in the UK are descended from a single dog called "Killer Kimbo" which itself was inbred [2] and its first and second generation offspring were responsible for killing a 4 year old child and a grown man respectively. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bully#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bully#History 2 - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/14/britains-xl-bullys-descend-one-inbred-pet-us-killer-kimbo/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/14/britains-xl-bull...
- fakedang 3y agoJust like a human or a family of humans destined to be and wired like killers and assassin's (a la the Hashashin), so too are dogs, if not more. Pitbulls are way too aggressive to be kept as ordinary pets and I don't mind if they're wiped out of existence by eradicating their breeding. Fuck pitbulls, except for that Red One which raps.
- brianjking 3y ago.
- bitcharmer 3y agoI just gave you a whole tonne in a different thread but I'm starting to suspect no amount of evidence will satisfy you.
- brianjking 3y ago.
- local_person 3y agoYes, that's what separates an opinion for a belief. You don't argue online to satisfy the other person, anyway - you do it for the silent 3rd party
- haunter 3y agoList of already banned dogs https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs
- jacquesm 3y agoThat list is way too short.
- w0z_ 3y agoI find it odd so many people support pitbulls, they're obviously more socially driven with this opinion than job/task driven... Pitbulls were originally bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. Dogs have instinctual purpose. Social justice keyboard warriors will overlook this and think the common person can own a pitbull and they are a product of their environment... not nature. lol
- jacquesm 3y agoI love dogs. There is no way I'd want a Pitbull or close relative. As a kid my dad took in a Bull Terrier, a relatively small but absolutely ferocious dog. We were pretty good buddies and I owe at least one count of 'not being beaten up' to that dog (I was mobbed in an Amsterdam park while walking the dog). Even so I would never want one or an even larger breed from the same family. I've seen what she could do and how quickly she could go from the world's nicest pet to absolute killer mode. Animals like that should not be held in society. I've also had an Irish Wolfhound and even though it too was fiercely protective of us and children I would have absolutely no problem trusting her. Dog breeds have built-in character. Hunting dogs are on a different plane than fighting dogs and just like you don't bring a drugged up cage fighter into your home you shouldn't bring a fighting dog into your home. They simply do not belong there. The people that have these dogs usually just have them to show off, they don't understand the first thing about dog training/rearing and will happily put the dog in extremely dangerous situations without thinking twice about it. Many such owners end up being mangled by their own dogs. There are other dogs that are on my 'would not have' list, either because I don't see the dog as suitable for living in a home with people or because the dog has a disposition that makes it a ticking time bomb. Where to draw the line is tricky, any dog if sufficiently pissed off is going to attack. But small dogs will likely not do a while lot of damage (unless you are a small child) and most dogs tend to require a lot of pushing before they get angry and as a rule they'll give plenty of warning.
- oh_come_on 3y agoThis is absolutely fantastic news. The pushback against it by people who say that this is the same thing as racism is ... more telling about those people's beliefs. People are actually not the same as dogs who have been bred for aggression, and who have enormously outsized injury rates.
- genocidicbunny 3y agoUnfortunately, I think this is going to be a cyclical game of whack-a-mole. Pitbulls were already banned, but they just renamed them to Staffies or American bully, and business continued as usual. Really, this needs to be combined with a more blanket system of holding the dog owner responsible for the damage/'crimes' that their dogs commit. If your dog mauls someone, it should be treated the same as if the owner had done it themselves with their own hands -- including jail time and massive fines. Dogs should all be chipped (with unchipped dogs being subject to immediate seizure and potentially destruction) so owners would be less inclined to maul-and-run. After all, one of the favourite arguments made by bully-breed supporters is that it's not the breed, it's the owners. I say fine, lets hold the owners appropriately responsible for their dog, for all breeds.
- jacquesm 3y agoNot just the owners: also the breeders. Once the remedies against the owners are exhausted breeders should be held responsible for each and every dog they send out into the world.