6 ms·

Workers strike at all 3 Detroit automakers for bigger share of industry profits

57 points by Vagantem 3y ago

CraigRo 3y ago
Pretty good gig: get unsustainable pay and pensions during good times. Funnel a bunch of it into politics. Get pensions guaranteed and bailed out in bad times. Been this way since the 60s
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  General Motors CEO Mary Barra, the highest-paid chief executive among the Big Three, made nearly $29 million in 2022. Securities and Exchange Commission filings show that this is 362 times the median GM employee's paycheck [1] (this pay ratio is required reporting from public companies now). Profits at the “Big 3” auto companies—Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis— skyrocketed 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion. Forecasts for 2023 expect more than $32 billion in additional profits [2] [3]. Polling shows a majority strongly supporting the union's efforts in this regard [4]. The money is there, and the people who doing the work are asking for a greater share of the profits generated by their work. This is not unreasonable, and Labor should continue to turn the screws as politics shift, as well as structural demographics causing labor demand to exceed supply for at least the next decade. [1] https://wamu.org/story/23/09/13/sky-high-ceo-pay-is-in-focus-as-workers-everywhere-are-demanding-higher-wages/ https://wamu.org/story/23/09/13/sky-high-ceo-pay-is-in-focus... ("Sky-high CEO pay is in focus as workers everywhere are demanding higher wages") [2] https://www.epi.org/blog/uaw-automakers-negotiations/ https://www.epi.org/blog/uaw-automakers-negotiations/ ("UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay") [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/15/biden-says-record-profits-should-ensure-record-contracts-as-uaw-strikes-ford-gm-and-stellanis-plants.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/15/biden-says-record-profits-sh... ("Biden says record profits should ensure record contracts as UAW strikes Ford, GM and Stellantis plants") [4] https://i.ibb.co/r7TsFtY/qd18hourfcob1.webp https://i.ibb.co/r7TsFtY/qd18hourfcob1.webp
  - polski-g 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      > Did you come from Reddit's Antiwork or something? I provide financial and logistical support to worker organizing efforts, so being familiar with this information is top of mind. Not anti capitalism, just believe it needs to be toned down a bit. More humanity and a bit less chasing numbers in spreadsheets and databases. Mary would be just fine earning mid 7 figures, for example. Saying she should make 0 is hyperbole, no one is arguing for that. Workers are arguing for a more fair deal. https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/ https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/ ("CEO pay has skyrocketed 1,460% since 1978") https://www.reuters.com/business/top-us-ceo-pay-rose-77-last-year-outpacing-inflation-study-finds-2023-05-03/ https://www.reuters.com/business/top-us-ceo-pay-rose-77-last... ("Top US CEO pay rose 7.7% last year, outpacing inflation, study finds) https://work.chron.com/ceo-compensation-vs-world-15509.html https://work.chron.com/ceo-compensation-vs-world-15509.html ("CEO Compensation in the US Vs. the World") https://inequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Ellison-Rewarding-Or-Hoarding-Full-Report.pdf https://inequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Ellison-Re... ("Rewarding or Hoarding: An Examination of Pay Ratios Revealed by Dodd-Frank")
      - jdasdf 3y ago
        >I provide financial and logistical support to worker organizing efforts, so being familiar with this information is top of mind. It shows, given all the lies you've been spewing all over this thread. For example: >Profits at the “Big 3” auto companies—Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis— skyrocketed 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion. Forecasts for 2023 expect more than $32 billion in additional profits [2]. None of this is true. The combined net income of those 3 companies during that time period is $168 Billion, not $250. The total combined net income in 2022 was $24.6 Billion, only 34% above the $18 billion for 2013 (in reality this was a real profit stagnation given the cumulative inflation over that time period). And your "Forecast" is literally a Pro-Union Mouth piece with no actual source for it. The reality is that this industry isn't doing well, their returns on assets have consistently been below their cost of capital, and additional labor costs won't help with that.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Been this way since the 60s Market share for unionised automakers is falling. (Toyota, Mercedes-Benz and Tesla.)
- hackermatic 3y ago
  According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, US auto worker pay is down by about 20% since 1990, adjusting for inflation: https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/inflation-adjusted-earnings-in-motor-vehicles-and-parts-industry-down-17-percent-from-1990-to-2018.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/inflation-adjusted-earning...
fdye 3y ago
There is a decent episode on this on The Daily by the NYT. Gives some historical context of the give and take of the unions and big 3. One takeaway, this particular new union leader is the first directly elected one in a very long time. Prior to this the union leader was selected in a good 'ole boys manner by union reps and sort of rotated. After the justice department found quite a bit of graft and bribery they required a new election and Shawn Fain won in a razor thin recount. As a result the UAW for the first time in a long time got a populist representative of the average union worker, thus the hard line strike. So for those of you against unions because of corruption, etc. This is what it looks like when there is at least less of that, a good thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/12/podcasts/the-daily/ford-general-motors-strike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/12/podcasts/the-daily/ford-g...
GenerWork 3y ago
I honestly don't know how the Big 3 will be able to fiscally handle the UAWs demands all while tooling up for an EV future. They'll have to raise prices of existing profitable vehicles (trucks & crossovers) in order to pay for all this. Meanwhile Tesla will be miles ahead in terms of technology and room to lower prices while still turning a profit, and if any of their foreign competitors are able to successfully come up with an attractive EV crossover (admittedly a big if), then they could be in for some real trouble.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  They could’ve started by not killing the EV1 back in the ‘00s. Would be light years ahead by now had they not given up on it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%... When I saw this documentary about 15 years ago it was pretty depressing. Now electric cars are everywhere and we can laugh at GM’s mismanagement.
  - kwere 3y ago
    unions would have killed it too if asked about, bcs EV need less manpower to produce cars end to end, lowering number of jobs and union power
- jfghi 3y ago
  ?
  - GenerWork 3y ago
    What about my statement is "?"
- landemva 3y ago
  I'm not worried, as creative destruction is progress for the typical consumer.
  - GenerWork 3y ago
naveen99 3y ago
Profits are defined to be what’s left after expenses / labor gets paid. Maybe they mean revenue ? Or more stock based compensation ?
- Dudester230602 3y ago
  Maybe they want to be exposed to unlimited losses if the company underperforms?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
porkbeer 3y ago
Auto profits are falling. Whule I wish everyone higher pay, there must be enough pie for a bigger slice. This will likely, and sadly, get worse for both workers and automakers before it gets better, or offshored.

57 points by Vagantem 3y ago

Pretty good gig: get unsustainable pay and pensions during good times. Funnel a bunch of it into politics. Get pensions guaranteed and bailed out in bad times. Been this way since the 60s

toomuchtodo 3y ago
General Motors CEO Mary Barra, the highest-paid chief executive among the Big Three, made nearly $29 million in 2022. Securities and Exchange Commission filings show that this is 362 times the median GM employee's paycheck [1] (this pay ratio is required reporting from public companies now). Profits at the “Big 3” auto companies—Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis— skyrocketed 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion. Forecasts for 2023 expect more than $32 billion in additional profits [2] [3]. Polling shows a majority strongly supporting the union's efforts in this regard [4]. The money is there, and the people who doing the work are asking for a greater share of the profits generated by their work. This is not unreasonable, and Labor should continue to turn the screws as politics shift, as well as structural demographics causing labor demand to exceed supply for at least the next decade. [1] https://wamu.org/story/23/09/13/sky-high-ceo-pay-is-in-focus-as-workers-everywhere-are-demanding-higher-wages/ https://wamu.org/story/23/09/13/sky-high-ceo-pay-is-in-focus... ("Sky-high CEO pay is in focus as workers everywhere are demanding higher wages") [2] https://www.epi.org/blog/uaw-automakers-negotiations/ https://www.epi.org/blog/uaw-automakers-negotiations/ ("UAW-automakers negotiations pit falling wages against skyrocketing CEO pay") [3] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/15/biden-says-record-profits-should-ensure-record-contracts-as-uaw-strikes-ford-gm-and-stellanis-plants.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/15/biden-says-record-profits-sh... ("Biden says record profits should ensure record contracts as UAW strikes Ford, GM and Stellantis plants") [4] https://i.ibb.co/r7TsFtY/qd18hourfcob1.webp https://i.ibb.co/r7TsFtY/qd18hourfcob1.webp
- polski-g 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    > Did you come from Reddit's Antiwork or something? I provide financial and logistical support to worker organizing efforts, so being familiar with this information is top of mind. Not anti capitalism, just believe it needs to be toned down a bit. More humanity and a bit less chasing numbers in spreadsheets and databases. Mary would be just fine earning mid 7 figures, for example. Saying she should make 0 is hyperbole, no one is arguing for that. Workers are arguing for a more fair deal. https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/ https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2021/ ("CEO pay has skyrocketed 1,460% since 1978") https://www.reuters.com/business/top-us-ceo-pay-rose-77-last-year-outpacing-inflation-study-finds-2023-05-03/ https://www.reuters.com/business/top-us-ceo-pay-rose-77-last... ("Top US CEO pay rose 7.7% last year, outpacing inflation, study finds) https://work.chron.com/ceo-compensation-vs-world-15509.html https://work.chron.com/ceo-compensation-vs-world-15509.html ("CEO Compensation in the US Vs. the World") https://inequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Ellison-Rewarding-Or-Hoarding-Full-Report.pdf https://inequality.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Ellison-Re... ("Rewarding or Hoarding: An Examination of Pay Ratios Revealed by Dodd-Frank")
    - jdasdf 3y ago
      >I provide financial and logistical support to worker organizing efforts, so being familiar with this information is top of mind. It shows, given all the lies you've been spewing all over this thread. For example: >Profits at the “Big 3” auto companies—Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis— skyrocketed 92% from 2013 to 2022, totaling $250 billion. Forecasts for 2023 expect more than $32 billion in additional profits [2]. None of this is true. The combined net income of those 3 companies during that time period is $168 Billion, not $250. The total combined net income in 2022 was $24.6 Billion, only 34% above the $18 billion for 2013 (in reality this was a real profit stagnation given the cumulative inflation over that time period). And your "Forecast" is literally a Pro-Union Mouth piece with no actual source for it. The reality is that this industry isn't doing well, their returns on assets have consistently been below their cost of capital, and additional labor costs won't help with that.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Been this way since the 60s Market share for unionised automakers is falling. (Toyota, Mercedes-Benz and Tesla.)
hackermatic 3y ago
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, US auto worker pay is down by about 20% since 1990, adjusting for inflation: https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/inflation-adjusted-earnings-in-motor-vehicles-and-parts-industry-down-17-percent-from-1990-to-2018.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2020/inflation-adjusted-earning...

fdye 3y ago

There is a decent episode on this on The Daily by the NYT. Gives some historical context of the give and take of the unions and big 3. One takeaway, this particular new union leader is the first directly elected one in a very long time. Prior to this the union leader was selected in a good 'ole boys manner by union reps and sort of rotated. After the justice department found quite a bit of graft and bribery they required a new election and Shawn Fain won in a razor thin recount. As a result the UAW for the first time in a long time got a populist representative of the average union worker, thus the hard line strike. So for those of you against unions because of corruption, etc. This is what it looks like when there is at least less of that, a good thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/12/podcasts/the-daily/ford-general-motors-strike.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/12/podcasts/the-daily/ford-g...

GenerWork 3y ago

I honestly don't know how the Big 3 will be able to fiscally handle the UAWs demands all while tooling up for an EV future. They'll have to raise prices of existing profitable vehicles (trucks & crossovers) in order to pay for all this. Meanwhile Tesla will be miles ahead in terms of technology and room to lower prices while still turning a profit, and if any of their foreign competitors are able to successfully come up with an attractive EV crossover (admittedly a big if), then they could be in for some real trouble.

janalsncm 3y ago
They could’ve started by not killing the EV1 back in the ‘00s. Would be light years ahead by now had they not given up on it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%... When I saw this documentary about 15 years ago it was pretty depressing. Now electric cars are everywhere and we can laugh at GM’s mismanagement.
- kwere 3y ago
  unions would have killed it too if asked about, bcs EV need less manpower to produce cars end to end, lowering number of jobs and union power
jfghi 3y ago
?
- GenerWork 3y ago
  What about my statement is "?"
landemva 3y ago
I'm not worried, as creative destruction is progress for the typical consumer.
- GenerWork 3y ago

naveen99 3y ago

Profits are defined to be what’s left after expenses / labor gets paid. Maybe they mean revenue ? Or more stock based compensation ?

Dudester230602 3y ago
Maybe they want to be exposed to unlimited losses if the company underperforms?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

porkbeer 3y ago

Auto profits are falling. Whule I wish everyone higher pay, there must be enough pie for a bigger slice. This will likely, and sadly, get worse for both workers and automakers before it gets better, or offshored.