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Why do we need Java?

by gaving 15y ago

batista 15y ago
Because it powers tens of thousands of huge systems in use? How about that? Have you tried programming BEFORE Java, when the same kind of systems were done in C++ with CORBA or similar monstrosities?
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zxcvb 15y ago
Many companies depend on Java for their mission critical infrastructure and applications. I used to work at a world leading investment bank who's entire low latency, high scalable trading platforms were built in Java. Just about every large financial firm that I've worked at plus both telco firms and one management consultancy used Java to build large, fast and scalable applications. You may have no use for Java in your small bubble of a world where you most probably work on insignificant, crappy pay and waste of time projects, but people who work on important stuff in the real world do. I'm sure other people can tell you why Java is important in ways that I cannot. I just get annoyed when I see people slag off a piece of technology just because they don't use it or like it.
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lani 15y ago
ava's design allows app development and performance to be decoupled (to a good extent, when compared to C or C++). Combined with the lower learning curve (again, compared to that which ruled before - aka C++), this commoditizes app development and has hence found much adoption in industry, leaving a small team of specialists to work on performance (& the jvm). Adoption leads to funds leads to research and/or improvements until Java expanded to include much of what needed to be done via programming, in other words, you can get almost everything you want done in java. In other words, Java is an industry standard, or if you will, a household name. So why do we need Java ? same reason as we need division of labour.
prodigal_erik 15y ago
Currently, the JVM usually outperforms everything other than C or C++, and those are only fast until they blow up randomly because humans can't write 100% flawless code.
- zxcvb 15y ago
  I don't know about that. Some of the Java libraries that were written in C were long ago converted to Java and they run faster. It's hard to say that the JVM is faster or slower than X because it usually comes down to the way in which the application is developed. If C++ was ALWAYS faster then I wouldn't be using Java for our trading systems. Some of our competitors use C++ and some use Java. We have one of the fastest trading platforms in the world, the only firm to have faster than us are also using Java.
  - prodigal_erik 15y ago
    Cool. I've always expected JIT could eventually beat AOT compilation, though I haven't heard of that being commonly seen. I'm a little surprised that C++ still tends to use crude vtable dispatch just because that's what Stroustrup demonstrated and it's easy.

Why do we need Java?

by gaving 15y ago

Why do we need Java?

Because it powers tens of thousands of huge systems in use? How about that? Have you tried programming BEFORE Java, when the same kind of systems were done in C++ with CORBA or similar monstrosities?

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

zxcvb 15y ago

Many companies depend on Java for their mission critical infrastructure and applications. I used to work at a world leading investment bank who's entire low latency, high scalable trading platforms were built in Java. Just about every large financial firm that I've worked at plus both telco firms and one management consultancy used Java to build large, fast and scalable applications. You may have no use for Java in your small bubble of a world where you most probably work on insignificant, crappy pay and waste of time projects, but people who work on important stuff in the real world do. I'm sure other people can tell you why Java is important in ways that I cannot. I just get annoyed when I see people slag off a piece of technology just because they don't use it or like it.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

lani 15y ago

ava's design allows app development and performance to be decoupled (to a good extent, when compared to C or C++). Combined with the lower learning curve (again, compared to that which ruled before - aka C++), this commoditizes app development and has hence found much adoption in industry, leaving a small team of specialists to work on performance (& the jvm). Adoption leads to funds leads to research and/or improvements until Java expanded to include much of what needed to be done via programming, in other words, you can get almost everything you want done in java. In other words, Java is an industry standard, or if you will, a household name. So why do we need Java ? same reason as we need division of labour.

prodigal_erik 15y ago

Currently, the JVM usually outperforms everything other than C or C++, and those are only fast until they blow up randomly because humans can't write 100% flawless code.

zxcvb 15y ago
I don't know about that. Some of the Java libraries that were written in C were long ago converted to Java and they run faster. It's hard to say that the JVM is faster or slower than X because it usually comes down to the way in which the application is developed. If C++ was ALWAYS faster then I wouldn't be using Java for our trading systems. Some of our competitors use C++ and some use Java. We have one of the fastest trading platforms in the world, the only firm to have faster than us are also using Java.
- prodigal_erik 15y ago
  Cool. I've always expected JIT could eventually beat AOT compilation, though I haven't heard of that being commonly seen. I'm a little surprised that C++ still tends to use crude vtable dispatch just because that's what Stroustrup demonstrated and it's easy.