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What no UFO believer seems to be able to answer is the very simple question of Why? Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do

What no UFO believer seems to be able to answer is the very simple question of Why? Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Eliezer Yudkowsky made a big post about this a while back, where he lays out the very sensible reasons that UFOs being explained by aliens makes no sense. (yes, i know, EY is annoying, I disclaim in advance all necessary disclaimers about him. He's right about this, at least). https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152 https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152

david-gpu 3y ago
> Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Imagine a chimpanzee in some remote jungle asking themselves the same question about "alien" humans.
- spoiler 3y ago
  There's probably other life in the universe (intelligent or not), but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor. Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor I have no idea whether there are aliens, or whether they are visiting, or how they could be doing it. A little over a century ago we had no idea that matter bended spacetime, so who knows what we will know about FTL in another century. > Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think.
    - epiccoleman 3y ago
      >> Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it > How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think. The post I linked from Eliezer explains it better than I can, so I'll just quote him: > Their technology would not be such that, having arrived here across interstellar distances and then remained hidden, they'd need to fly around in large visible vehicles > I have enormously wide uncertainty over the possible range of alien technologies. But I can use current knowledge of physics and chemistry, and the advance analyses that others have done of what technological possibilities those imply, to put a lower bound under alien technology that's comfortably above "needs to use giant flying vehicles for travel or surveillance". > I don't need to know exactly what aliens are trying to do, to know that only a few and unlikely goals would imply a best possible strategy of flying around in sightable UFOs while staying otherwise hidden. I think that about sums up my own views.
- GhostWhisperer 3y ago
  humans can reach the jungle in a fraction of their lifetime and when technology allows they tend to make their observations with remote cameras.
  - seanw444 3y ago
    True, but there are other humans that have taken upon themselves to integrate into a pack of chimps and film their daily lives up close.
- epiccoleman 3y ago
  Humans have considerably more ability to think through the logic of a decision. And as other commenters mentioned, the difference in the level of effort to go see a chimp in person versus the effort of sending a spacecraft across astronomical distances is huge. I don't agree with the form of the argument here either - "the aliens are so advanced that you can't possibly fathom their reasons." Or even, more charitably - "the aliens are so advanced that a trip to see humans is trivial." In either case, stating "they're so advanced that we can't possibly make sense of them" doesn't mean the question's not valid.
russfink 3y ago
This. If we deem them intelligent, using ourselves as a guide, then would they not pursue far planet exploration as we have ... unmanned? Unless it was cheap and easy for (their version of Elon Musk anyway) them to travel, and what we are seeing is simply unscientific, ill advised tourism?
- Communitivity 3y ago
  Who says UFOs are manned?
  - krapp 3y ago
    Grusch, and all of the numerous "whistleblowers" and "eyewitnesses" for one. The narrative is that UFOs are manned interdimensional craft, and that the US and other governments have recovered both "non human biologics" from the pilots and reverse engineered alien technology. If you want to go in another direction - that UFOs are unmanned probes - you have to separate the UAP phenomenon from the greater UFO mythology, but that isn't really feasible when you've got people like Steven Greer and Lue Elizondo involved.
    - lakomen 3y ago
      He only said that there are non human bodies.
      - krapp 3y ago
        He's claimed far more than that. "Non-human origin technical vehicles, call them spacecraft if you will," from which "pilots" have been recovered. Some of these craft were apparently the size of football fields, made of unidentifiable materials. He's implied that he believes these craft don't come from other planets, but other dimensions, that secret agreements between the government and the intelligences behind these craft exist, and that people have been murdered to cover it up. He's not talking about monkeys in drones, or anything even remotely terrestrial.
xeromal 3y ago
I mean, alien teenagers in their teenage tricycles could be dicking around and checking us out. lol

david-gpu 3y ago

> Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Imagine a chimpanzee in some remote jungle asking themselves the same question about "alien" humans.

spoiler 3y ago
There's probably other life in the universe (intelligent or not), but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor. Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor I have no idea whether there are aliens, or whether they are visiting, or how they could be doing it. A little over a century ago we had no idea that matter bended spacetime, so who knows what we will know about FTL in another century. > Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think.
  - epiccoleman 3y ago
    >> Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it > How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think. The post I linked from Eliezer explains it better than I can, so I'll just quote him: > Their technology would not be such that, having arrived here across interstellar distances and then remained hidden, they'd need to fly around in large visible vehicles > I have enormously wide uncertainty over the possible range of alien technologies. But I can use current knowledge of physics and chemistry, and the advance analyses that others have done of what technological possibilities those imply, to put a lower bound under alien technology that's comfortably above "needs to use giant flying vehicles for travel or surveillance". > I don't need to know exactly what aliens are trying to do, to know that only a few and unlikely goals would imply a best possible strategy of flying around in sightable UFOs while staying otherwise hidden. I think that about sums up my own views.
GhostWhisperer 3y ago
humans can reach the jungle in a fraction of their lifetime and when technology allows they tend to make their observations with remote cameras.
- seanw444 3y ago
  True, but there are other humans that have taken upon themselves to integrate into a pack of chimps and film their daily lives up close.
epiccoleman 3y ago
Humans have considerably more ability to think through the logic of a decision. And as other commenters mentioned, the difference in the level of effort to go see a chimp in person versus the effort of sending a spacecraft across astronomical distances is huge. I don't agree with the form of the argument here either - "the aliens are so advanced that you can't possibly fathom their reasons." Or even, more charitably - "the aliens are so advanced that a trip to see humans is trivial." In either case, stating "they're so advanced that we can't possibly make sense of them" doesn't mean the question's not valid.

russfink 3y ago

This. If we deem them intelligent, using ourselves as a guide, then would they not pursue far planet exploration as we have ... unmanned? Unless it was cheap and easy for (their version of Elon Musk anyway) them to travel, and what we are seeing is simply unscientific, ill advised tourism?

Communitivity 3y ago
Who says UFOs are manned?
- krapp 3y ago
  Grusch, and all of the numerous "whistleblowers" and "eyewitnesses" for one. The narrative is that UFOs are manned interdimensional craft, and that the US and other governments have recovered both "non human biologics" from the pilots and reverse engineered alien technology. If you want to go in another direction - that UFOs are unmanned probes - you have to separate the UAP phenomenon from the greater UFO mythology, but that isn't really feasible when you've got people like Steven Greer and Lue Elizondo involved.
  - lakomen 3y ago
    He only said that there are non human bodies.
    - krapp 3y ago
      He's claimed far more than that. "Non-human origin technical vehicles, call them spacecraft if you will," from which "pilots" have been recovered. Some of these craft were apparently the size of football fields, made of unidentifiable materials. He's implied that he believes these craft don't come from other planets, but other dimensions, that secret agreements between the government and the intelligences behind these craft exist, and that people have been murdered to cover it up. He's not talking about monkeys in drones, or anything even remotely terrestrial.

xeromal 3y ago

I mean, alien teenagers in their teenage tricycles could be dicking around and checking us out. lol