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Let me rephrase that for you: NASA uses public obsession with conspiratorial nonsense to try and obtain more funding for real shit. It would shock me if there

Let me rephrase that for you: NASA uses public obsession with conspiratorial nonsense to try and obtain more funding for real shit. It would shock me if there wasn't life elsewhere in the universe, but space and time are stupid huge, and the credulous nonsense from UFO enthusiasts is incredibly annoying to me. Like, sure - anything we don't understand should be investigated, and NASA is criminally under-resourced in all areas, but don't get annoyed when it still isn't aliens.

edgyquant 3y ago
It’s amazing how more and more organizations are stating this is a real thing and every time detractors have a spin because they don’t want to have been wrong claiming everyone who was interested in UFOs was a batshit conspiracy theorist.
- empyrrhicist 3y ago
  Incorrect - I 100% believe that UAP are real phenomena, and that there are strong military and science cases for investigating them. I am annoyed at all the enthusiastic people actively presuming that it's aliens. Like... that's in no way a reasonable null assumption, and until strong evidence shows otherwise it's actively harmful and counterproductive. Meanwhile it's a substantial moneymaker for a lot of people, which is still more grating.
  - empath-nirvana 3y ago
    It's just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps anything you can't explain must be aliens.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > It’s amazing how more and more organizations are stating this is a real thing It's amazing how exaggerated claims like that are. When you try to track down these organizations saying "ayy lmaos are real" you actually come up with organizations saying things like "the video is real" (and incidentally, shows an airliner 30 miles away) or "there are UAP" (translation: "It's an areal phenomena that we can't identify because the video quality is shit, and we certainly don't have any reason to conclude that it's aliens but we're going to call it a UAP because that's literally what it is.") The direct claims of it being aliens are all coming from obviously batshit kooks repeating things they claim they heard other people say. e.g. David Grusch.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  > this is a real thing This is sort of a contentless phrase unless you specify what "this" is in some detail.
epiccoleman 3y ago
What no UFO believer seems to be able to answer is the very simple question of Why? Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Eliezer Yudkowsky made a big post about this a while back, where he lays out the very sensible reasons that UFOs being explained by aliens makes no sense. (yes, i know, EY is annoying, I disclaim in advance all necessary disclaimers about him. He's right about this, at least). https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152 https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Imagine a chimpanzee in some remote jungle asking themselves the same question about "alien" humans.
  - spoiler 3y ago
    There's probably other life in the universe (intelligent or not), but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor. Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor I have no idea whether there are aliens, or whether they are visiting, or how they could be doing it. A little over a century ago we had no idea that matter bended spacetime, so who knows what we will know about FTL in another century. > Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think.
Waterluvian 3y ago
UFO conspiracy stuff is a rather narcissistic endeavour when you think about what it’s suggesting in the grand scale of things. I’m not sure of the quality of this analysis but I had also found this the other day that suggests the relationship between conspiracy thinking and narcissism. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X22001051 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X2...
- seanw444 3y ago
  I have multiple anecdotes of incredibly narcissistic people that refuse to believe some conspiracies are totally plausible, and that pretty much everything is as it seems, and as we are told. While there may be some pattern to it, I'd be incorrect if I were to apply it personally.
pmorici 3y ago
“NASA is criminally under-resourced” They have a $22 billion annual budget. SpaceX’s annual revenue this year is projected to be about $8 billion and profitable for the first time. SpaceX launch’s more rockets and puts more satellites into space than the rest of the world combined on revenue about 1/3rd of NASA’s budget. NASA isn’t criminally underfunded they are criminally inefficient.
- empyrrhicist 3y ago
  Well I wouldn't entirely disagree - I should clarify that congressional projects like the SLS are wasteful nonsense. The parts of NASA that I think are under-resourced are planetary science, advanced propulsion etc. Research, in other words.
- fsh 3y ago
  NASA doesn't build or launch spacecraft. They pay companies such as SpaceX to do it for them.
  - empyrrhicist 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System
- taylodl 3y ago
  I must have missed when SpaceX created space telescopes and sent probes to Mars, the Sun, Europa, Titan, interstellar space... NASA also plays a key role in collecting meteorological data. They're doing a bit more than just launching rockets.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    > space telescopes and sent probes to Mars, the Sun, Europa, Titan, interstellar space... meteorological data. All of that is great, but how much of NASA's budget is going to the Artemis/SLS boondoggle?
gremlinsinc 3y ago
I could possibly buy aliens visiting etc, on a long enough time scale humanity could colonize the galaxy without ftl drives. I want to believe but there's too many holes. One of the biggest is Gruschs claim that there's 12 or more captured space craft that have crashed etc and we have alien specimens.... Are you telling me an advanced civ that builds hardy interstellar spacecraft made it here with 12 vehicles or many more but managed to crash 12 of them and not recover the wreckage? Doesn't seem that well planned for a kardashev 2 to 3 civilization.

edgyquant 3y ago

It’s amazing how more and more organizations are stating this is a real thing and every time detractors have a spin because they don’t want to have been wrong claiming everyone who was interested in UFOs was a batshit conspiracy theorist.

empyrrhicist 3y ago
Incorrect - I 100% believe that UAP are real phenomena, and that there are strong military and science cases for investigating them. I am annoyed at all the enthusiastic people actively presuming that it's aliens. Like... that's in no way a reasonable null assumption, and until strong evidence shows otherwise it's actively harmful and counterproductive. Meanwhile it's a substantial moneymaker for a lot of people, which is still more grating.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  It's just https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps anything you can't explain must be aliens.
mcpackieh 3y ago
> It’s amazing how more and more organizations are stating this is a real thing It's amazing how exaggerated claims like that are. When you try to track down these organizations saying "ayy lmaos are real" you actually come up with organizations saying things like "the video is real" (and incidentally, shows an airliner 30 miles away) or "there are UAP" (translation: "It's an areal phenomena that we can't identify because the video quality is shit, and we certainly don't have any reason to conclude that it's aliens but we're going to call it a UAP because that's literally what it is.") The direct claims of it being aliens are all coming from obviously batshit kooks repeating things they claim they heard other people say. e.g. David Grusch.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
> this is a real thing This is sort of a contentless phrase unless you specify what "this" is in some detail.

epiccoleman 3y ago

What no UFO believer seems to be able to answer is the very simple question of Why? Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Eliezer Yudkowsky made a big post about this a while back, where he lays out the very sensible reasons that UFOs being explained by aliens makes no sense. (yes, i know, EY is annoying, I disclaim in advance all necessary disclaimers about him. He's right about this, at least). https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152 https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1682446903953457152

david-gpu 3y ago
> Why would an alien society advanced enough to travel here even bother to do so? If they would bother, why send a manned craft? Why send a craft big enough to be spotted by humans? Imagine a chimpanzee in some remote jungle asking themselves the same question about "alien" humans.
- spoiler 3y ago
  There's probably other life in the universe (intelligent or not), but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor. Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > but I doubt its ET visiting us in an FTL tractor I have no idea whether there are aliens, or whether they are visiting, or how they could be doing it. A little over a century ago we had no idea that matter bended spacetime, so who knows what we will know about FTL in another century. > Besides, the visiting methodology of these aliens wouldn't match their alleged level of advancement (unless they evolved beyond what we on Earth call common sense), if you think about it How so? It's always good to understand whst other people think.

Waterluvian 3y ago

UFO conspiracy stuff is a rather narcissistic endeavour when you think about what it’s suggesting in the grand scale of things. I’m not sure of the quality of this analysis but I had also found this the other day that suggests the relationship between conspiracy thinking and narcissism. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X22001051 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352250X2...

seanw444 3y ago
I have multiple anecdotes of incredibly narcissistic people that refuse to believe some conspiracies are totally plausible, and that pretty much everything is as it seems, and as we are told. While there may be some pattern to it, I'd be incorrect if I were to apply it personally.

pmorici 3y ago

“NASA is criminally under-resourced” They have a $22 billion annual budget. SpaceX’s annual revenue this year is projected to be about $8 billion and profitable for the first time. SpaceX launch’s more rockets and puts more satellites into space than the rest of the world combined on revenue about 1/3rd of NASA’s budget. NASA isn’t criminally underfunded they are criminally inefficient.

empyrrhicist 3y ago
Well I wouldn't entirely disagree - I should clarify that congressional projects like the SLS are wasteful nonsense. The parts of NASA that I think are under-resourced are planetary science, advanced propulsion etc. Research, in other words.
fsh 3y ago
NASA doesn't build or launch spacecraft. They pay companies such as SpaceX to do it for them.
- empyrrhicist 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System
taylodl 3y ago
I must have missed when SpaceX created space telescopes and sent probes to Mars, the Sun, Europa, Titan, interstellar space... NASA also plays a key role in collecting meteorological data. They're doing a bit more than just launching rockets.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > space telescopes and sent probes to Mars, the Sun, Europa, Titan, interstellar space... meteorological data. All of that is great, but how much of NASA's budget is going to the Artemis/SLS boondoggle?

gremlinsinc 3y ago

I could possibly buy aliens visiting etc, on a long enough time scale humanity could colonize the galaxy without ftl drives. I want to believe but there's too many holes. One of the biggest is Gruschs claim that there's 12 or more captured space craft that have crashed etc and we have alien specimens.... Are you telling me an advanced civ that builds hardy interstellar spacecraft made it here with 12 vehicles or many more but managed to crash 12 of them and not recover the wreckage? Doesn't seem that well planned for a kardashev 2 to 3 civilization.