3 ms·

Who has the largest commitment to ending the war?

koonsolo 3y ago
What do you mean by 'ending the war'? Ukraine gaining back its sovereignty or (partly) turning into a Russian puppet state?
- verdverm 3y ago
  The more important question is "How does Ukraine win the peace?" As important as getting Russia out this time is ensuring they don't do it again in 10-20+ years
  - benterix 3y ago
    There is no such thing as a guarantee in this world. Whatever they do, there is always danger Russia will attack again. The most they can do is to make this decision as hard as possible and the consequences for Russia as heavy as possible. But you can't ensure anything.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      USSR/Russia has never attacked NATO, winning the peace by definition means that the prospects for war are very low from many decades if not forever, not zero probability. Ukraine can win the peace without fully removing Russia from current borders. It is up to them to decide what they are willing to trade for that peace, because reclaiming all the land by force will not win the peace, Russia will be even more humiliated and bellicose. --- Consider Vietnam, the US lost the war but won the peace. Vietnam is very pro US Korea is a cease-fire, but largely there again, the peace was won Iraq & Afghanistan, not so much --- I'm particularly fond of listening to Stephen Kotkin on these matters, we is one of the best minds thinking about them, and he has this incredible way of conveying and getting to the core of the matters, past all the superficial talking points. He's truly an artist in this regard https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stephen+kotkin https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stephen+kotkin
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    I am sure Prigozin got guarantees from Putin if he stops his march to Moscow. Ukraine got guarantees in 1994, it did not helped at all. There is no point in writing anything on a paper. Only raw power decides.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      Counterpoint, Russia has a lot more raw power than Ukraine. They need the alliances on paper to prevent this from happening again, and they need them today to survive this war.
benterix 3y ago
Ukrainians. They sacrifice their lives every day to this end.

What do you mean by 'ending the war'? Ukraine gaining back its sovereignty or (partly) turning into a Russian puppet state?

verdverm 3y ago
The more important question is "How does Ukraine win the peace?" As important as getting Russia out this time is ensuring they don't do it again in 10-20+ years
- benterix 3y ago
  There is no such thing as a guarantee in this world. Whatever they do, there is always danger Russia will attack again. The most they can do is to make this decision as hard as possible and the consequences for Russia as heavy as possible. But you can't ensure anything.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    USSR/Russia has never attacked NATO, winning the peace by definition means that the prospects for war are very low from many decades if not forever, not zero probability. Ukraine can win the peace without fully removing Russia from current borders. It is up to them to decide what they are willing to trade for that peace, because reclaiming all the land by force will not win the peace, Russia will be even more humiliated and bellicose. --- Consider Vietnam, the US lost the war but won the peace. Vietnam is very pro US Korea is a cease-fire, but largely there again, the peace was won Iraq & Afghanistan, not so much --- I'm particularly fond of listening to Stephen Kotkin on these matters, we is one of the best minds thinking about them, and he has this incredible way of conveying and getting to the core of the matters, past all the superficial talking points. He's truly an artist in this regard https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stephen+kotkin https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=stephen+kotkin
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  I am sure Prigozin got guarantees from Putin if he stops his march to Moscow. Ukraine got guarantees in 1994, it did not helped at all. There is no point in writing anything on a paper. Only raw power decides.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    Counterpoint, Russia has a lot more raw power than Ukraine. They need the alliances on paper to prevent this from happening again, and they need them today to survive this war.

benterix 3y ago

Ukrainians. They sacrifice their lives every day to this end.