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You write that elected Democrats wouldn't be caught standing next to people on the extreme left. At the same time Democrats rely on that extreme, too, for votes

You write that elected Democrats wouldn't be caught standing next to people on the extreme left. At the same time Democrats rely on that extreme, too, for votes in tight elections and can't risk alienating it. That could mean that even mainstream Democrats might no longer be so willing to perpetuate the American national mythology -- the Constitution as a sacred document and the Founders as great men -- that both parties could broadly agree on for a long time. And as other poster here mentions, when the left, too, loses interest in those founding values, it is less capable of standing up to alarming behavior from the right.

klyrs 3y ago
Obama famously snubbed Cornell West, but he still got re-elected and then his milquetoast veep got elected. Dr. West is now running for president, which sounds like it should test your theory that Democrats cannot offend the extreme left. Do you actually think he'll draw enough votes for (R) to win? I don't.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  I daresay Cornell West is more extreme left than a broader “extreme left” that simply feels that the Constitution is a deeply, perhaps irredeemably flawed document. Moreover, the Obama reelection was over a decade ago, and with the events of this last decade and changing American demographics, the Democrat youth vote at this moment is probably even more cynical about the American national mythology. A mainstream Democrat certainly wouldn’t outright disparage the Constitution, but praising the Constitution as a sacred and well-designed document, as used to be done by both parties and perpetuated in American civics classes, could only turn those voters off.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    Do you have evidence to support your feelings about what mainstream Democrats feel? Or can you name right-of-West-but-still-extreme-left politician who exemplifies your position? Because I'm pretty far out there but I love the constitution -- and while I think it's got its flaws, I'm no different from Ben Franklin in that regard and I see it as a living document: it can and must be amended as those flaws become apparent.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      Post George Floyd, I know mainstream moderate Democrats now that call the constitution a “racist document.” For longer than that, mainstream democrats have dismissed federalism as merely a pretext for segregation. People will regularly argue against adhering to the original meaning or intent of the document “because the founders were slave holders.” Ideologically, the fact that the constitution represents a compromise with slave holders has become increasingly intolerable for democrats. Anti-racism as a principle has become more important than rule of law or cultivating a shared respect for the fundamental law.
      - jeezfrk 3y ago
        Democrats of these days call everything "tainted". That movement has only interest in defining flaws as inherent. None want to burn it all down. This is for genuine fear of those who want fascism to encourage mob violence, discrimination and deny law and order to minorities. Puritans are not the anarchists in this story. Little Nazis are trying to normalize revolution and idol worship as somehow universal. Lying to kill the constitution is their main tactic.
        rayiner 3y ago
        [flagged]
atoav 3y ago
I am not from the US, but if I was and I had to vote purely on who is less likely to tear democracy down, I would vote the Democrats and it is not even a close contest. Your left leaning democrats are like our center-left government parties in terms of ideology. The Dems as a whole are slightly center right. Your Republicans are like our far right fringe parties. Especially after how they handled their presidents insurection, the Republicans in my eyes should be unvotable for anybody who cares about democracy. And they should remain unvotable until they do some soul-searching. But this also includes things the GOP does outside of Trumps sphere of influence. E.g. look at the list of the worst gerrymandered states or at how the right tries to stop people from voting. If not enough people vote your party the democratic way would be to adjust which positions you offer to them, but the GOP seems like it would rather adjust their electorate. Even if I liked the positions the GOP holds I would hate the idea to let them rule me, because this smells of "ignore what the voter wants". To theie credit, they managed to divide the electorate so much with culture-war bs that a big part of them actively want to become peasants under absolutist rule if it just meant the other side will lose.

klyrs 3y ago

Obama famously snubbed Cornell West, but he still got re-elected and then his milquetoast veep got elected. Dr. West is now running for president, which sounds like it should test your theory that Democrats cannot offend the extreme left. Do you actually think he'll draw enough votes for (R) to win? I don't.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
I daresay Cornell West is more extreme left than a broader “extreme left” that simply feels that the Constitution is a deeply, perhaps irredeemably flawed document. Moreover, the Obama reelection was over a decade ago, and with the events of this last decade and changing American demographics, the Democrat youth vote at this moment is probably even more cynical about the American national mythology. A mainstream Democrat certainly wouldn’t outright disparage the Constitution, but praising the Constitution as a sacred and well-designed document, as used to be done by both parties and perpetuated in American civics classes, could only turn those voters off.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Do you have evidence to support your feelings about what mainstream Democrats feel? Or can you name right-of-West-but-still-extreme-left politician who exemplifies your position? Because I'm pretty far out there but I love the constitution -- and while I think it's got its flaws, I'm no different from Ben Franklin in that regard and I see it as a living document: it can and must be amended as those flaws become apparent.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Post George Floyd, I know mainstream moderate Democrats now that call the constitution a “racist document.” For longer than that, mainstream democrats have dismissed federalism as merely a pretext for segregation. People will regularly argue against adhering to the original meaning or intent of the document “because the founders were slave holders.” Ideologically, the fact that the constitution represents a compromise with slave holders has become increasingly intolerable for democrats. Anti-racism as a principle has become more important than rule of law or cultivating a shared respect for the fundamental law.
    - jeezfrk 3y ago
      Democrats of these days call everything "tainted". That movement has only interest in defining flaws as inherent. None want to burn it all down. This is for genuine fear of those who want fascism to encourage mob violence, discrimination and deny law and order to minorities. Puritans are not the anarchists in this story. Little Nazis are trying to normalize revolution and idol worship as somehow universal. Lying to kill the constitution is their main tactic.
      - rayiner 3y ago
        [flagged]

atoav 3y ago

I am not from the US, but if I was and I had to vote purely on who is less likely to tear democracy down, I would vote the Democrats and it is not even a close contest. Your left leaning democrats are like our center-left government parties in terms of ideology. The Dems as a whole are slightly center right. Your Republicans are like our far right fringe parties. Especially after how they handled their presidents insurection, the Republicans in my eyes should be unvotable for anybody who cares about democracy. And they should remain unvotable until they do some soul-searching. But this also includes things the GOP does outside of Trumps sphere of influence. E.g. look at the list of the worst gerrymandered states or at how the right tries to stop people from voting. If not enough people vote your party the democratic way would be to adjust which positions you offer to them, but the GOP seems like it would rather adjust their electorate. Even if I liked the positions the GOP holds I would hate the idea to let them rule me, because this smells of "ignore what the voter wants". To theie credit, they managed to divide the electorate so much with culture-war bs that a big part of them actively want to become peasants under absolutist rule if it just meant the other side will lose.