4 ms·

Do we still need the TSA? I mean, we beat terrorism right?

soupfordummies 3y ago
We never did
hrokr 3y ago
At the time the TSA was hired the majority of workers had previously been airport security which is was low-skill/low-pay job. When Bush Jr established the TSA, those same people were federalized. Meaning Federal pay, benefits, retirement, etc for the same low skill level. They haven't improved much since then. The organization has essentially made Security Theater an event with audience participation. Yet they routinely miss threats -- like they have a 95% FAILURE rate at points. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/reassessing_air.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/reassessing_a... Incidentally, that post is fairly well known amongst the security minded as you see here. https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill-the-tsa/ https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill...
- supportengineer 3y ago
  What’s their failure rate for detecting liquids over 3 oz?
  - civilitty 3y ago
    50:50 maybe. I made it through with a 10oz can of Zippo lighter fluid once. Didn’t realize it till I got home from the airport.
    - andyjsong 3y ago
      That sounds about right, I took a domestic flight from SFO to PSP this week. I had a full-sized tube of toothpaste going there, with no issues, and they took it away coming back.
    - thefurdrake 3y ago
      I accidentally brought a full-sized 4th of July smokebomb through TSA and didn't realize it until I unpacked after I got home. I'm not talking one of those small, spherical smokebombs. No, this was one of those 5" long, 1" diameter sticks, and it was by itself in a pocket of my netbook bag, which didn't have room for much else, so it's not like the xray image would have been confusing. Seems like tons of other people have had similar experiences. TSA's impact on safety is largely imagination and wishful thinking.
horns4lyfe 3y ago
It’s a jobs program, always has been.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  It’s a theater performance for the benefit of the unsophisticated public that happens to be a jobs program as a second order effect. After 9/11, there was an overwhelming urge for government to “do something”, and this is the result. If you’re the one to dismantle the TSA, however strong your data is why it should be done, it’ll be your head to roll as soon as a negative event occurs. And so the show must go on.
c0nducktr 3y ago
No we don't, and we never did. We prevented future 9/11 style attacks by locking the cabin doors
- Filligree 3y ago
  And enabled pilot suicides. I think what's really preventing future 9/11 attacks is the attitude of the passengers.
  - function_seven 3y ago
    > I think what's really preventing future 9/11 attacks is the attitude of the passengers. I'm certain of this. The scheme used on 9/11 was a one-and-done affair. It cannot be repeated. We know this because only one hour after the first plane hit the north tower of WTC, that infamous "let's roll" line was overheard on a phone call from Flight 93. Not only are future attempts at this unworkable, not even the 4th attempt of that day was viable! Airport screening should be for bombs or other materials that cannot be countered by passenger resistance. Drugs, pocket knives, darts, etc. should be passed through without comment. This would also improve the effectiveness of the screening! With fewer items to be on the lookout for, the screening can be more effective.
  - skeaker 3y ago
    I've been into blogs on aviation accidents recently and can confidently say that it's both the attitudes of passengers post-9/11 and locking the cabin by default that has prevented most hijacking attempts. Pilot suicides are a threat, yes, but they are much much much rarer than attempted hijackings, so they're less of a risk than the alternative (which is leaving the cabin unlocked for anyone to just waltz into and beat the captain up: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-dead-mans-gambit-the-crash-of-ethiopian-airlines-flight-961-1a8a8daa566b https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-dead-mans-gambit-the...).
hedora 3y ago
Well, most intentionally-downed passenger aircraft in the last decade were apparent pilot suicides that were enabled by the post 9/11 cockpit security doors, so I guess we won.
solardev 3y ago
Mission accomplished! But then the DLCs came out.
Reptur 3y ago
Nah, now terrorism gets redefined to whomever they deem. Many governments across the world have already added climate activists to it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

We never did

At the time the TSA was hired the majority of workers had previously been airport security which is was low-skill/low-pay job. When Bush Jr established the TSA, those same people were federalized. Meaning Federal pay, benefits, retirement, etc for the same low skill level. They haven't improved much since then. The organization has essentially made Security Theater an event with audience participation. Yet they routinely miss threats -- like they have a 95% FAILURE rate at points. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/reassessing_air.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/reassessing_a... Incidentally, that post is fairly well known amongst the security minded as you see here. https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill-the-tsa/ https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill...

supportengineer 3y ago
What’s their failure rate for detecting liquids over 3 oz?
- civilitty 3y ago
  50:50 maybe. I made it through with a 10oz can of Zippo lighter fluid once. Didn’t realize it till I got home from the airport.
  - andyjsong 3y ago
    That sounds about right, I took a domestic flight from SFO to PSP this week. I had a full-sized tube of toothpaste going there, with no issues, and they took it away coming back.
  - thefurdrake 3y ago
    I accidentally brought a full-sized 4th of July smokebomb through TSA and didn't realize it until I unpacked after I got home. I'm not talking one of those small, spherical smokebombs. No, this was one of those 5" long, 1" diameter sticks, and it was by itself in a pocket of my netbook bag, which didn't have room for much else, so it's not like the xray image would have been confusing. Seems like tons of other people have had similar experiences. TSA's impact on safety is largely imagination and wishful thinking.

horns4lyfe 3y ago

It’s a jobs program, always has been.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
It’s a theater performance for the benefit of the unsophisticated public that happens to be a jobs program as a second order effect. After 9/11, there was an overwhelming urge for government to “do something”, and this is the result. If you’re the one to dismantle the TSA, however strong your data is why it should be done, it’ll be your head to roll as soon as a negative event occurs. And so the show must go on.

c0nducktr 3y ago

No we don't, and we never did. We prevented future 9/11 style attacks by locking the cabin doors

Filligree 3y ago
And enabled pilot suicides. I think what's really preventing future 9/11 attacks is the attitude of the passengers.
- function_seven 3y ago
  > I think what's really preventing future 9/11 attacks is the attitude of the passengers. I'm certain of this. The scheme used on 9/11 was a one-and-done affair. It cannot be repeated. We know this because only one hour after the first plane hit the north tower of WTC, that infamous "let's roll" line was overheard on a phone call from Flight 93. Not only are future attempts at this unworkable, not even the 4th attempt of that day was viable! Airport screening should be for bombs or other materials that cannot be countered by passenger resistance. Drugs, pocket knives, darts, etc. should be passed through without comment. This would also improve the effectiveness of the screening! With fewer items to be on the lookout for, the screening can be more effective.
- skeaker 3y ago
  I've been into blogs on aviation accidents recently and can confidently say that it's both the attitudes of passengers post-9/11 and locking the cabin by default that has prevented most hijacking attempts. Pilot suicides are a threat, yes, but they are much much much rarer than attempted hijackings, so they're less of a risk than the alternative (which is leaving the cabin unlocked for anyone to just waltz into and beat the captain up: https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-dead-mans-gambit-the-crash-of-ethiopian-airlines-flight-961-1a8a8daa566b https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/the-dead-mans-gambit-the...).

hedora 3y ago

Well, most intentionally-downed passenger aircraft in the last decade were apparent pilot suicides that were enabled by the post 9/11 cockpit security doors, so I guess we won.

solardev 3y ago

Mission accomplished! But then the DLCs came out.

Reptur 3y ago

Nah, now terrorism gets redefined to whomever they deem. Many governments across the world have already added climate activists to it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]