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I find articles like this really vexing because this isn't a general-purpose CPU, it's just a chip meant to run the software that Apple allows on the App Store.
by gary_0 3y ago
I find articles like this really vexing because this isn't a general-purpose CPU, it's just a chip meant to run the software that Apple allows on the App Store. Most of the software I use day-to-day can't run on it by design.
It's kind of depressing that the most advanced mobile CPU technology (that can only be fabbed by a single company in a far-away country) is monopolized by a company that heavily restricts the software you can run on it, and will never sell it to me with documentation and let me plug it onto my own motherboard--which is ironically how Apple first started, by buying and making full use of the MOS 6502. But the days of the garage hacker getting their hands on cutting-edge parts are long gone.
- GeekyBear 3y ago> this isn't a general-purpose CPU Apple uses the same CPU/GPU core designs for handheld, tablet, laptop, and desktop.
- yakz 3y agoIt’s depressing right now maybe, but at least it probably means we’ll have this level of performance inexpensively in some years. The tech is still getting better quickly.
- Aloha 3y agoJust because you can't run whatever software you like on it, does not make it non-general purpose CPU.
- nixpulvis 3y agoTrue. But it does make it functionally a non-general purpose CPU. I suppose you can load your own programs if you have a dev account or jailbreak right?
- whiddershins 3y agoYes. And a dev account is like $100/year. It’s bad that they can gatekeep like this, I agree. I should just be able to put whatever on the hardware I buy. But the expense in practical terms, immediate pragmatic terms, is negligible compared to what it unlocks.
- nixpulvis 3y agoI disagree. $100/yr to put what might be a very simple little toy application is not worth it. Sure, that toy might inspire more, and it could even lead to a promising career, but it’s a stretch to argue it was worth it when it could just as easily never be utilized. The promise of general purpose computing and open source as well is that it empowers all kinds of users. Oh how badly I want to tweak little things about my iPhone, but can’t because the software is locked down.
- whiddershins 3y agoCompared to the cost and power of any of the hardware and software we are talking about it is insignificant. If you want to do toy programming on a budget there are a million arduino-like things out there. I recently saw calculations on the price of say, just iOS alone. It being equivalent to multiple Manhattan projects. Regardless of how accurate that estimate is, the general point remains. Do I think Apple should make developing for non-distribution on the iPhone free? Yes. Do I think there is an argument that is almost a moral obligation? Possibly. But what you get for like 30 cents a day with a developer account is mind boggling. I mean, that was the initial point wasn’t it? These are insanely capable and meticulously engineered pieces of technology. Edit: I can even argue it is an ethical obligation that Apple should allow all users to install non App Store apps if they explicitly so choose. And I have argued that in the past. But I separate this from the evaluation of the value proposition offered by an Apple Developer account.
- nixpulvis 3y agoWhat you are missing is that basically everyone needs a phone, not everyone needs an arduino. There is a fundamental difference between even 30¢ and free. Make developing free and suddenly you’ll have more developers. Now it’s a whole other discussion of if that’s a good thing or not. But I personally like to believe that everyone should be able to develop as a hobbyist. The commercialization of software is often at odd with it’s users. Not so much when people are doing things for themselves and for fun. Just my 2¢
- 3y ago
- bpye 3y agoUnless it’s changed again you don’t need a dev account to deploy apps to iOS - but it is somewhat limited. You can have at most 3, the signing lasts for just a week and IIRC the entitlements you can use are limited as well?
- gary_0 3y agoMy definition of "general purpose" is that that you can "run whatever software you like on it". If you can't run whatever on it, that restricts the CPU to a "specific purpose", no?
- throwaway2990 3y agoif I write a bit of software and target ARM64 and it cannot run on x86. Does that mean that x86 has a specific purpose now and is no longer a general purpose CPU?
- gary_0 3y agoThat's not the same thing. An instruction set is an inherent aspect of a CPU; you can't have a CPU without one. Also, you can emulate or translate instruction sets between general-purpose CPUs, or in most cases just recompile the higher-level source code. The underlying logic will be executed regardless.
- throwaway2990 3y agoOh so you’re saying the iPhone cpu is a general purpose cpu then. Just need to translate the instructions. Ok.
- inkyoto 3y ago> […] An instruction set is an inherent aspect of a CPU; you can't have a CPU without one. Oh, yes, you can. The following examples of – Transport triggered architecture – Dataflow architecture – Optical and quantum computing represent viable, general purpose (not general availability), albeit experimental, CPU's without instruction sets. That is, none of them have anything similar to «movq $1, %r0» or «add.w %r2, %r0, %r1». FPGA's are another and a more conventional example of a general purpose (even if specialised) CPU without an instruction set.
- kaba0 3y agoTada, there is ish, so you can run whatever on an iphone emulated by an x86 layer! That is, you have a general purpose CPU. Sure, apple suck at sideloading, hopefully the EU ruling will make it a possibility, but then say that instead.
- nxobject 3y agoIf you collect vintage compact Macs, you can literally see the hardware transition from the original Macintosh designed like any other random 68k project within the reach of homebrewer with a PAL programmer, to highly compact gate arrays and “if you don’t have the ability to design and obtain custom silicon, good luck”. VLSI giveth and VLSI taketh.
- Pufferbo 3y agoI’m glad someone else feels this way. I absolutely hate those YouTube videos talking about the “4K 30min total render” bs. Show me a M-chip MacBook that doesn’t balk when running Docker, or chug when opening a fat codebase in WebStorm. Sure the chips are fast when they run the stuff Apple designed for it, but they don’t seem any faster to me in my work. I will give them efficiency though. I love not having to carry the charge brick everywhere I go.
- throwaway2990 3y agoI have a 14” M2 which has been up 52 days with docker running in the background, and Rider and Clion. And it runs better than my DELL XPS 15 which heats the room.
- DanHulton 3y agoI mean, the M1 chip in my Macbook Pro runs absolute circles around the Intel one that I had in the previous generation, and they were released within a year of each other, so... I honestly do not know what you're talking about.
- happymellon 3y agoThat's not a high bar. I'm still stuck on the 2019 MacBook Pro for work, and it is significantly slower and hotter than my ThinkPad with Linux that I use for hobby programming. Whenever I open IntelliJ on it I can feel the temperature of the room increase. The Intel Macs were terrible for many years.
- chrbr 3y agoCannot wait for my Intel MBP to be refreshed into an M2 at work. Running Docker turns it into a jet engine. Like having a white noise machine with an unpleasant tone that also generates a ton of heat.
- happymellon 3y agoMoreso than the noise, the touchbar at the back can become too hot to touch and the plastic strip around the screen, where MacBook Pro is printed, is bubbling and peeling away with the heat.
- lagrange77 3y ago> But the days of the garage hacker getting their hands on cutting-edge parts are long gone. In the context of CPUs i'm with you (still tinkering with things like 6502s). On the other hand, i just deployed Llama2 70B (with the help of [0]) on my home PC and it was fascinating, when it wrote it's first response. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37492986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37492986
- scarface_74 3y agoIt’s a preview of what will probably be the basis of the M3 series of Macs that will allow you to run any software you want
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jrpelkonen 3y agoPerhaps we should then view NSO Group as liberators, freeing software from the tyranny of evil corporations. /s
- EPWN3D 3y agoThe security policy of the OS and the performance characteristics of the SoC are two different things.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kaba0 3y agoNot ideal, but you can basically run whatever you want on it, you just have to revalidate its licence each 7 days (for which you might need a mac). Also, even without that there is ish which can run most x86 software.
- paulmd 3y agoThis is the same family as the MacBook line use. Once yields improve on N3 next year you’ll be able to get even a MacBook Air that will have this same chip but with more cores.
- rsynnott 3y agoFor practical purposes, it will be largely the same chip as the M3, which will be used in general purpose computers.