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They were supposed to have solid state battery cars and vehicles for the Tokyo Olympics. It was obvious that wasn't going to happen and it didn't. Toyota has b

They were supposed to have solid state battery cars and vehicles for the Tokyo Olympics. It was obvious that wasn't going to happen and it didn't. Toyota has been completely asleep at the switch for EVs which is baffling since they pioneered the hybrid electric vehicle. What's really strange is after having such a huge lead and hybrid electric vehicle, they have really crawled behind other manufacturers and producing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles which are really just a plug adder onto the vehicle. It really is mystifying Keep in mind they're basically isn't a single car manufacturer outside of China and maybe Tesla that are actually doing original battery research. They are all partnering with actual battery manufacturers like Panasonic, Samsung, etc

_hypx 3y ago
It takes zero effort to make an EV. They are incredibly simple vehicles. People really need to let go of their EV fanboyism (and likely that includes Tesla fanboyism). In reality, if EVs were the future, Toyota would start making vast numbers of them in just a few years. The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. Until then, PHEVs and hybrids make a lot of sense. PS: A lot of these Chinese EV makers are scam companies propped up by the Chinese government. They have no ability beyond shoving giant batteries into generic chassis.
- acdha 3y ago
  > The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. That must come as quite a surprise to all of the people who’ve already found them to be cost effective. Did you mean something like “gargantuan e-SUVs and trucks”?
  - _hypx 3y ago
    That either involve subsidies or significant sacrifices. The problem is that right now, a hybrid cost around $25k. It takes something like a decade of driving before you can reach cost parity, and that is assuming you have access to cheap electricity. e-SUVs and trucks are even more non-competitive.
    - acdha 3y ago
      This very much depends on how low your gas prices are subsidized to, and as you admitted the lower maintenance costs are quite helpful. One catalytic concert theft will add a couple of years to that schedule, too.
      - _hypx 3y ago
        Gas is usually heavily taxed. Maintenance costs are absurdly exaggerated (especially when compared to the long-term cost of battery replacement) and catalytic convertor theft is covered by insurance.
        acdha 3y ago
        Gas taxes are about half of what they’re supposed to be to find road maintenance. The rest is subsidized out of general fund revenues. Re: maintenance costs every reputable analyst says that EVs are significantly cheaper throughout the entire lifetime of the vehicle, even when you factor in the higher tire wear and tear. That doesn’t factor in the disruption cost of having to get service, either, which adds up with every extra visit unless you live next to the repair shop. Finally, yes, insurance covers some costs but you’re paying money into that pool. Everyone I know has been complaining about premiums going up due to thefts disproportionately affecting ICE vehicles and a lot of people have been paying money out of pocket trying to harden popular targets like Priuses because parts were in short supply.
        _hypx 3y ago
        That's a lot of wishful thinking. Certainly, in places like California and Europe, they're much higher than they can be justified. Gas taxes feed into the general fund instead. Maintenance costs are just marketing. The moment you factor in battery replacement costs, the advantage collapses. BEV companies just pretend this never happens. Catalytic convertor theft is not that common. This is more wishful thinking.
        3y ago
- nebula8804 3y ago
  It might take zero effort to make an EV but it must take some more effort than zero to make a good reliable EV. I agree that it seems like Toyota is definitely putting in zero effort into their EV offerings. The bz4x rollout has been a mess. Its such a shame as my previous ICE car is really on its last legs and i'm bummed at the current offerings. Im looking at some small crossover so far I found tons of used bz4x marked as lemon/deal buybacks, Hyundai kona has a multitude of issues and also has buybacks. Mustang Mach-E seems the best deal and Tesla is hit/miss. btw are you the hypx from the /r/Realtesla Tesla skeptics subreddit?
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  In theory you are correct: EVs are way easier. In practice you are not: - you need an entirely new software stack (the S-word makes car manufacturers break into sweat) - you need an entirely new supply chain, or even worse for OEM-integration-addicted carmakers, build your own supply chain - you need to secure a competitive priced volume battery source - you can't just slap motors and batteries into an ICE frame. You NEED that last 50-100 miles that total system integration and design gets you in EV range

_hypx 3y ago

It takes zero effort to make an EV. They are incredibly simple vehicles. People really need to let go of their EV fanboyism (and likely that includes Tesla fanboyism). In reality, if EVs were the future, Toyota would start making vast numbers of them in just a few years. The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. Until then, PHEVs and hybrids make a lot of sense. PS: A lot of these Chinese EV makers are scam companies propped up by the Chinese government. They have no ability beyond shoving giant batteries into generic chassis.

acdha 3y ago
> The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. That must come as quite a surprise to all of the people who’ve already found them to be cost effective. Did you mean something like “gargantuan e-SUVs and trucks”?
- _hypx 3y ago
  That either involve subsidies or significant sacrifices. The problem is that right now, a hybrid cost around $25k. It takes something like a decade of driving before you can reach cost parity, and that is assuming you have access to cheap electricity. e-SUVs and trucks are even more non-competitive.
  - acdha 3y ago
    This very much depends on how low your gas prices are subsidized to, and as you admitted the lower maintenance costs are quite helpful. One catalytic concert theft will add a couple of years to that schedule, too.
    - _hypx 3y ago
      Gas is usually heavily taxed. Maintenance costs are absurdly exaggerated (especially when compared to the long-term cost of battery replacement) and catalytic convertor theft is covered by insurance.
      - acdha 3y ago
        Gas taxes are about half of what they’re supposed to be to find road maintenance. The rest is subsidized out of general fund revenues. Re: maintenance costs every reputable analyst says that EVs are significantly cheaper throughout the entire lifetime of the vehicle, even when you factor in the higher tire wear and tear. That doesn’t factor in the disruption cost of having to get service, either, which adds up with every extra visit unless you live next to the repair shop. Finally, yes, insurance covers some costs but you’re paying money into that pool. Everyone I know has been complaining about premiums going up due to thefts disproportionately affecting ICE vehicles and a lot of people have been paying money out of pocket trying to harden popular targets like Priuses because parts were in short supply.
        _hypx 3y ago
        That's a lot of wishful thinking. Certainly, in places like California and Europe, they're much higher than they can be justified. Gas taxes feed into the general fund instead. Maintenance costs are just marketing. The moment you factor in battery replacement costs, the advantage collapses. BEV companies just pretend this never happens. Catalytic convertor theft is not that common. This is more wishful thinking.
        3y ago
nebula8804 3y ago
It might take zero effort to make an EV but it must take some more effort than zero to make a good reliable EV. I agree that it seems like Toyota is definitely putting in zero effort into their EV offerings. The bz4x rollout has been a mess. Its such a shame as my previous ICE car is really on its last legs and i'm bummed at the current offerings. Im looking at some small crossover so far I found tons of used bz4x marked as lemon/deal buybacks, Hyundai kona has a multitude of issues and also has buybacks. Mustang Mach-E seems the best deal and Tesla is hit/miss. btw are you the hypx from the /r/Realtesla Tesla skeptics subreddit?
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
In theory you are correct: EVs are way easier. In practice you are not: - you need an entirely new software stack (the S-word makes car manufacturers break into sweat) - you need an entirely new supply chain, or even worse for OEM-integration-addicted carmakers, build your own supply chain - you need to secure a competitive priced volume battery source - you can't just slap motors and batteries into an ICE frame. You NEED that last 50-100 miles that total system integration and design gets you in EV range