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So, personal anecdotal experience. You have a working garage. Good for you - however a metric ton folk don’t. Last stats I read had something like 75% of owner

So, personal anecdotal experience. You have a working garage. Good for you - however a metric ton folk don’t. Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. In addition the Midwest seems to have a higher number of usable garages, but the moment you hit any city then you’re going to be damn lucky. Your apparent dismissal of other people’s range anxiety based upon your personal experience, is all rather disappointing.

vel0city 3y ago
> So, personal anecdotal experience. And this is what again? > I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week You think the average driver is more likely to be a general commuter/local city kind of driver or one throwing their skis in the back of their car twice a week? Which one is basing their view of reality more on personal anecdotes? > Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. The majority of Americans live in single family homes. By a large measure. The next largest category are single-family attached. That's 70% of the total housing stock. These kinds of structures can (generally) easily add some form of charging, even if only outside. Then you figure, chances are households who have zero cars are probably the ones in dense housing units, so car ownership is even more weighted towards those in these kinds of units, so for car owning households (and especially multi-car owning households) you're probably even higher than just 70%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs... I'm speaking to those living in suburban/urban settings in single family homes (detached or attached) who mostly use their cars around the city and commuting. They're talking about people driving on >100mi ski trips twice a week. Which one is probably more like the average driver? Who is basing their view mostly off anecdotes and who is basing it off actual statistics? I'm not saying EVs work for every use case -- clearly they don't! But for the majority of drivers in the US, range anxiety is irrational at this point and they'll spend more time and money pumping gas than plugging in.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  Quite definitely a personal story. I'm trying to illustrate the diverse lifestyles out there in margin of USAistan that aren't going to convert cleanly. > majority of drivers I definitely moved to a small town with boundless access to outdoor recreation because the standard-issue American lifestyle doesn't appeal. I caution you against endorsing technologies and social structuring programs that further the monocropping of humans (but I freely admit that this is a stony crypto/anarcho/discordian philosophical bent).
  - vel0city 3y ago
    It seems to me, depending on the town and where I live geographically around it, I might still find having an EV to still be easier than an ICE. If you're like 50 miles outside of the nearest town, you often don't have many options for getting gas. Depending on how things are, it could be a bit of a hassle. If most of the amenities you're going to visit (the trails and what not) are within around 100mi or so from home, the EV is going to be an easier vehicle most of the time seeing as how you can just "gas up" at home instead of potentially having to make a long trip into town. And speaking from a self-reliance mindset, wouldn't being able to fuel your vehicle with energy you can produce off-grid be even more anarcho instead of being reliant on massive global supply chains to get your weekly/biweekly fix? But I do get it, if you're routinely driving >100mi deep trips into the wilderness its not reasonable to have an EV. Currently. Maybe things will be better in a decade, maybe they won't. I imagine the world will look a good bit different in this regard in a decade. It definitely all varies based on where you are and what you need. I'm definitely not one to argue all vehicles should be EVs, I do think people should be able to make the decisions which are ultimately right for them. You actually do pull a boat to the lake a good bit? You actually do hit up offroad trails? You take your horses around in a horse trailer? That's awesome, have fun. But I do see a good chunk of people who aren't honest with themselves about what their actual needs are, and overall it leads to sub-par outcomes for a lot of society. People driving giant pavement princess brodozers to their office jobs in dense urban areas all because there was that one time a few years ago where they helped someone move a couch and hey wasn't that just so handy. They impart a lot of negative externalities on the people around them.

vel0city 3y ago

> So, personal anecdotal experience. And this is what again? > I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week You think the average driver is more likely to be a general commuter/local city kind of driver or one throwing their skis in the back of their car twice a week? Which one is basing their view of reality more on personal anecdotes? > Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. The majority of Americans live in single family homes. By a large measure. The next largest category are single-family attached. That's 70% of the total housing stock. These kinds of structures can (generally) easily add some form of charging, even if only outside. Then you figure, chances are households who have zero cars are probably the ones in dense housing units, so car ownership is even more weighted towards those in these kinds of units, so for car owning households (and especially multi-car owning households) you're probably even higher than just 70%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs... I'm speaking to those living in suburban/urban settings in single family homes (detached or attached) who mostly use their cars around the city and commuting. They're talking about people driving on >100mi ski trips twice a week. Which one is probably more like the average driver? Who is basing their view mostly off anecdotes and who is basing it off actual statistics? I'm not saying EVs work for every use case -- clearly they don't! But for the majority of drivers in the US, range anxiety is irrational at this point and they'll spend more time and money pumping gas than plugging in.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
Quite definitely a personal story. I'm trying to illustrate the diverse lifestyles out there in margin of USAistan that aren't going to convert cleanly. > majority of drivers I definitely moved to a small town with boundless access to outdoor recreation because the standard-issue American lifestyle doesn't appeal. I caution you against endorsing technologies and social structuring programs that further the monocropping of humans (but I freely admit that this is a stony crypto/anarcho/discordian philosophical bent).
- vel0city 3y ago
  It seems to me, depending on the town and where I live geographically around it, I might still find having an EV to still be easier than an ICE. If you're like 50 miles outside of the nearest town, you often don't have many options for getting gas. Depending on how things are, it could be a bit of a hassle. If most of the amenities you're going to visit (the trails and what not) are within around 100mi or so from home, the EV is going to be an easier vehicle most of the time seeing as how you can just "gas up" at home instead of potentially having to make a long trip into town. And speaking from a self-reliance mindset, wouldn't being able to fuel your vehicle with energy you can produce off-grid be even more anarcho instead of being reliant on massive global supply chains to get your weekly/biweekly fix? But I do get it, if you're routinely driving >100mi deep trips into the wilderness its not reasonable to have an EV. Currently. Maybe things will be better in a decade, maybe they won't. I imagine the world will look a good bit different in this regard in a decade. It definitely all varies based on where you are and what you need. I'm definitely not one to argue all vehicles should be EVs, I do think people should be able to make the decisions which are ultimately right for them. You actually do pull a boat to the lake a good bit? You actually do hit up offroad trails? You take your horses around in a horse trailer? That's awesome, have fun. But I do see a good chunk of people who aren't honest with themselves about what their actual needs are, and overall it leads to sub-par outcomes for a lot of society. People driving giant pavement princess brodozers to their office jobs in dense urban areas all because there was that one time a few years ago where they helped someone move a couch and hey wasn't that just so handy. They impart a lot of negative externalities on the people around them.