3 ms·

What is a “3 second fillup?” And what do you mean “Recharge my ICE”? Are you trying to infer that Internal Combustion engine vehicles are not refilled but “re

What is a “3 second fillup?” And what do you mean “Recharge my ICE”? Are you trying to infer that Internal Combustion engine vehicles are not refilled but “recharged”? And how does your singular personal anecdotal experience change the fact that range anxiety is a very real thing with EV vehicles?

vel0city 3y ago
3-second fillup: when I pull into my garage, it takes me ~3-5 seconds to grab the plug off the wall right next to the car and plug it in. I then stop waiting on it, because I've got other stuff I'm doing now that I'm home. Sure, maybe it takes it 20 minutes or a couple of hours to replenish whatever charge I used, buts its not time I'm waiting. The only time I'm waiting on my EV is just the time to plug it in for easily 95% of the miles I do. The same experience would be had for most American drivers for the vast majority of their miles. Recharge my ICE: go out of my way to a gas station, negotiate payment, open the gas tank, pump the gas, put everything back, go back on my way. This is just all wasted time. I'm not realistically able to walk away and do some other task while all of this is happening, I'm an active participant in it all the way through or the time waiting isn't useful to actually do anything with (the several minutes of it actually pumping). Range anxiety is largely irrational for the average US driver. The majority of US drivers would spend less time and money charging an EV than paying for gas. Sure, some people truly can't charge at home. However, the vast majority of US households live in a single family house, and then another big chunk live in townhouses and others that could probably easily add charging. Very, very few actually do the "drive off to the woods twice a week" kind of lifestyle. And even then, depending on how far away "the woods" are, it might not have any impact at all on waiting to charge. Were you going >100mi away to go on that quick bike or skiing trip? There's lots of bike trails around me within a 100mi radius or so, and I don't even live in a part of the country known for good biking.
- MissTake 3y ago
  So, personal anecdotal experience. You have a working garage. Good for you - however a metric ton folk don’t. Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. In addition the Midwest seems to have a higher number of usable garages, but the moment you hit any city then you’re going to be damn lucky. Your apparent dismissal of other people’s range anxiety based upon your personal experience, is all rather disappointing.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > So, personal anecdotal experience. And this is what again? > I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week You think the average driver is more likely to be a general commuter/local city kind of driver or one throwing their skis in the back of their car twice a week? Which one is basing their view of reality more on personal anecdotes? > Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. The majority of Americans live in single family homes. By a large measure. The next largest category are single-family attached. That's 70% of the total housing stock. These kinds of structures can (generally) easily add some form of charging, even if only outside. Then you figure, chances are households who have zero cars are probably the ones in dense housing units, so car ownership is even more weighted towards those in these kinds of units, so for car owning households (and especially multi-car owning households) you're probably even higher than just 70%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs... I'm speaking to those living in suburban/urban settings in single family homes (detached or attached) who mostly use their cars around the city and commuting. They're talking about people driving on >100mi ski trips twice a week. Which one is probably more like the average driver? Who is basing their view mostly off anecdotes and who is basing it off actual statistics? I'm not saying EVs work for every use case -- clearly they don't! But for the majority of drivers in the US, range anxiety is irrational at this point and they'll spend more time and money pumping gas than plugging in.
    - rokkitmensch 3y ago
      Quite definitely a personal story. I'm trying to illustrate the diverse lifestyles out there in margin of USAistan that aren't going to convert cleanly. > majority of drivers I definitely moved to a small town with boundless access to outdoor recreation because the standard-issue American lifestyle doesn't appeal. I caution you against endorsing technologies and social structuring programs that further the monocropping of humans (but I freely admit that this is a stony crypto/anarcho/discordian philosophical bent).
      - 3y ago

vel0city 3y ago

3-second fillup: when I pull into my garage, it takes me ~3-5 seconds to grab the plug off the wall right next to the car and plug it in. I then stop waiting on it, because I've got other stuff I'm doing now that I'm home. Sure, maybe it takes it 20 minutes or a couple of hours to replenish whatever charge I used, buts its not time I'm waiting. The only time I'm waiting on my EV is just the time to plug it in for easily 95% of the miles I do. The same experience would be had for most American drivers for the vast majority of their miles. Recharge my ICE: go out of my way to a gas station, negotiate payment, open the gas tank, pump the gas, put everything back, go back on my way. This is just all wasted time. I'm not realistically able to walk away and do some other task while all of this is happening, I'm an active participant in it all the way through or the time waiting isn't useful to actually do anything with (the several minutes of it actually pumping). Range anxiety is largely irrational for the average US driver. The majority of US drivers would spend less time and money charging an EV than paying for gas. Sure, some people truly can't charge at home. However, the vast majority of US households live in a single family house, and then another big chunk live in townhouses and others that could probably easily add charging. Very, very few actually do the "drive off to the woods twice a week" kind of lifestyle. And even then, depending on how far away "the woods" are, it might not have any impact at all on waiting to charge. Were you going >100mi away to go on that quick bike or skiing trip? There's lots of bike trails around me within a 100mi radius or so, and I don't even live in a part of the country known for good biking.

MissTake 3y ago
So, personal anecdotal experience. You have a working garage. Good for you - however a metric ton folk don’t. Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. In addition the Midwest seems to have a higher number of usable garages, but the moment you hit any city then you’re going to be damn lucky. Your apparent dismissal of other people’s range anxiety based upon your personal experience, is all rather disappointing.
- vel0city 3y ago
  > So, personal anecdotal experience. And this is what again? > I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week You think the average driver is more likely to be a general commuter/local city kind of driver or one throwing their skis in the back of their car twice a week? Which one is basing their view of reality more on personal anecdotes? > Last stats I read had something like 75% of owners had access to one, compared to only 39% of renters. The majority of Americans live in single family homes. By a large measure. The next largest category are single-family attached. That's 70% of the total housing stock. These kinds of structures can (generally) easily add some form of charging, even if only outside. Then you figure, chances are households who have zero cars are probably the ones in dense housing units, so car ownership is even more weighted towards those in these kinds of units, so for car owning households (and especially multi-car owning households) you're probably even higher than just 70%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs-multifamily-homes-usa/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1042111/single-family-vs... I'm speaking to those living in suburban/urban settings in single family homes (detached or attached) who mostly use their cars around the city and commuting. They're talking about people driving on >100mi ski trips twice a week. Which one is probably more like the average driver? Who is basing their view mostly off anecdotes and who is basing it off actual statistics? I'm not saying EVs work for every use case -- clearly they don't! But for the majority of drivers in the US, range anxiety is irrational at this point and they'll spend more time and money pumping gas than plugging in.
  - rokkitmensch 3y ago
    Quite definitely a personal story. I'm trying to illustrate the diverse lifestyles out there in margin of USAistan that aren't going to convert cleanly. > majority of drivers I definitely moved to a small town with boundless access to outdoor recreation because the standard-issue American lifestyle doesn't appeal. I caution you against endorsing technologies and social structuring programs that further the monocropping of humans (but I freely admit that this is a stony crypto/anarcho/discordian philosophical bent).
    - 3y ago