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I see way too many Toyota battery articles for a company that can barely put out an EV. They're all promises... in the future, they swear they'll beat everyone,

I see way too many Toyota battery articles for a company that can barely put out an EV. They're all promises... in the future, they swear they'll beat everyone, but they just released a Lexus EV at $60k with 196mi range and 5sec 0-60.

itsoktocry 3y ago
>5sec 0-60. When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? Do you even know the 0-60 of your car? Do you realize how quick 5 second is to 60mph? Most sports cars of a generation ago couldn't touch that. Why do you feel it needs to be faster? It's plain dangerous to inexperienced drivers.
- doublepg23 3y ago
  Aren’t Lexus cars luxury?
  - pipeline_peak 3y ago
    To some, to others they’re just Toyotas with leather seats ;)
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Lexus is the new Cadillacs they might have a 400 horsepower engine and really high performance but the people that drive them drive them like slugs. They're the cars of old conservative rich people that don't buy American and primarily considered reliability
- rgbrenner 3y ago
  I do know the 0-60 of my car... but that's not the point. I just want to make sure the reader doesn't think the range is low because it's some high performance car. It's just a normal Lexus suv that's not up to par in the EV category.
- RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
  Idk what the 0-60 of my leaf is but I beat every one off the line when I want to. It makes me far more comfortable on the freeway to get all the power I want on demand to quickly and safely make a maneuver. I would never have considered it before owning an EV, but now that I have one, I'll definitely be considerate of it in my next EV purchase. Previously I had only had crappy used ICE vehicles, and the acceleration was so bad it had never occurred to me how much better driving could be with good acceleration. I probably wouldn't include it in my calculus for an ICE vehicle, but I'll probably never purchase another ICE vehicle either.
  - ricardobeat 3y ago
    Depends on the year, it used to be around 11s, latest models brought it down to 8-7 seconds. Normal ICE cars are in the 12-18s range, sometimes <10s but you’d look like a mad man revving your engine high enough to achieve that. 5s is ridiculously fast and that kind of acceleration should _never_ be used in the middle of traffic or city roads.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
      My Tesla’s 0-60 makes a huge difference in normal driving, because the acceleration profile at low speeds is a lot more “do the right thing now”. Driving my minivan or other ICE cars feels laggy to me now.
      - RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
        This is the sense I was trying to communicate. I'm not flooring it, but when I make a speed adjustment, it happens 'right away'. There is no delay. Its immediate.
      - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
        A lot of that is the automatic transmission in ICE drivetrains. a manual transmission delivers immediate acceleration but still not as good as a Tesla
    - 3y ago
- ronnier 3y ago
  I do. My Tesla 0-60 is 1.99~ and gets about 400 mile range
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  > When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? 1946 it seems: https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/c12-0603-icons-uncle-tom-mccahill/ https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/c12-0603-icons-unc...
- pipeline_peak 3y ago
  Because 0 to 60 in 5 means 0 to 30 in even less than it used to take. No need to be a sour puss, let car people love their cars
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  > Why do you feel it needs to be faster? Because there's nothing I hate more than a car that doesn't respond when I try to accelerate.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    The amount of torque you get and how fast you get it is what you care about then, not 0-60 times. They're not really related. There are cars with good 0-60 times that have terrible fast-secondary/highway acceleration; cars with big turbos, for example, and overly aggressive throttle-input smoothing (for mileage.)
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      I don't get it. The faster a car accelerates from 0 to whatever speed, the higher acceleration it has. How could it not be related?
- Dig1t 3y ago
  For Americans: always For the rest of the world: I have no idea. I have seen car commercials my entire life stating the car's 0-60. EV's I think are especially good for this though because it's fun to accelerate in an EV. Fun does sell cars, see the Miata, S2000, every convertible, etc There are tons of examples. I, personally, as an average Joe, definitely would consider acceleration when buying a brand new car, I think it can be a good differentiator.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? Are you seriously going to try gaslight us that nobody cares about 0-60 times? I'll be charitable and assume you're confusing max speed with 0-60. Most people care about 0-60 performance as it's what they experience after.every.single.stop. They may not know the documented 0-60 time, but they generally know and appreciate better acceleration. But I do doubt most people know the actual top speed of their vehicles, and relatively few have ever operated their vehicles near or at vmax.
- hedora 3y ago
  5 sec is slow-ish by EV standards. The more important questions (for me) are how well it handles on curves, how efficient it is and what the range is. The energy efficiency and weight (in American metrics) are 5.32 mi/kwh (extremely good), and a bit over 4000 lbs (pretty heavy; makes me wonder about handling), with well under 300 miles of range, depending on conditions. So... It looks like it'd appeal to the people I know that buy Lexus cars. That's not me, but I hope they sell a lot of them. https://ev-database.org/car/1943/Lexus-UX-300e https://ev-database.org/car/1943/Lexus-UX-300e
- fragmede 3y ago
  Are we gatekeeping liking fast, expensive cars now? Cars are an absolute fixture of American society, and even a blind person can feel the difference between a 5-second 0-60 and a 15-second 0-60. It's fair to point out that, eg, a Corvette from 1960 was slower than 5 seconds for 0-60, but you don't have to be a total gearhead to want to be the fastest off the light.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  There's a saying in car manufacturers that Americans buy horsepower but drive torque. Torque is generally what you need when you need that. Beat the person off the line because you didn't merge into the right turn lane early enough acceleration onto the highway and two lane highway passing. Horsepower is largely a metric for top speed of the vehicle, and if we're talking about in a relative statistic for road cars, top speed is far more useless than 0-60
- rasz 3y ago
  It matters when your competitor sells cheaper product accelerating almost twice as fast and offering almost twice the range. It makes you look like a huge scammer.
RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
>196mi range Oof size "La Grande".
BizarreByte 3y ago
I don't know what Toyota's future looks like in terms of electrics, but I know that I won't own an electric car until they sell an electric Corolla, or something equivalent.
- willmadden 3y ago
  Just get the new Prius Prime. The battery is large enough to go 44+ miles all electric, plus you can still use gasoline for long road trips. It has more cargo space than a corolla and actually looks kind of cool.
- hedora 3y ago
  I wouldn't hold my breath for something called a "Corolla". Their roadmap is a big gaping hole for the next 3 years. However, this exists, and kind of looks like a tall Corolla: https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/ https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/
  - d0gbread 3y ago
    What's the model called? I think someone accidentally base64 encoded it.
    - psd1 3y ago
      Corolla=
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      We just call it the Burzum =)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
They're trying to Osborne effect their competitors. Don't buy our competitors EVs, something much better is coming soon we promise...
- tuatoru 3y ago
  It's more a sequence of the Innovator's Dilemma, and the IBM Salesman's Sex Life: [IBM salesman's wife]: All my husband does is sit on the end of the bed and tell me how great it's going to be.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Toyota has insane brand loyalty, at least over here. There are people who have driven cars for 40-50 years and every car has been a Toyota. These are the people they're trying to keep. "Our Super Great EV is just around the corner, but here's a new Toyota Corolla Hybrid for you for the mean time"
ricardobeat 3y ago
Overcompensating from their statements that EVs were a fad and hydrogen was the way to go?
- dv_dt 3y ago
  It’s Toyota version of the remote work snafu. Buying a futuristic car where you still have to go somewhere else to fill up is backwards compared to charging at home 99% of the time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
reducesuffering 3y ago
It's telling how ashamed they are at the range when they have an entire screen filled with info about how range is affected by a variety of conditions. And the actual 220mi/196mi range is found in tiny font hidden behind a tab.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
They were supposed to have solid state battery cars and vehicles for the Tokyo Olympics. It was obvious that wasn't going to happen and it didn't. Toyota has been completely asleep at the switch for EVs which is baffling since they pioneered the hybrid electric vehicle. What's really strange is after having such a huge lead and hybrid electric vehicle, they have really crawled behind other manufacturers and producing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles which are really just a plug adder onto the vehicle. It really is mystifying Keep in mind they're basically isn't a single car manufacturer outside of China and maybe Tesla that are actually doing original battery research. They are all partnering with actual battery manufacturers like Panasonic, Samsung, etc
- _hypx 3y ago
  It takes zero effort to make an EV. They are incredibly simple vehicles. People really need to let go of their EV fanboyism (and likely that includes Tesla fanboyism). In reality, if EVs were the future, Toyota would start making vast numbers of them in just a few years. The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. Until then, PHEVs and hybrids make a lot of sense. PS: A lot of these Chinese EV makers are scam companies propped up by the Chinese government. They have no ability beyond shoving giant batteries into generic chassis.
  - acdha 3y ago
    > The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. That must come as quite a surprise to all of the people who’ve already found them to be cost effective. Did you mean something like “gargantuan e-SUVs and trucks”?
    - _hypx 3y ago
      That either involve subsidies or significant sacrifices. The problem is that right now, a hybrid cost around $25k. It takes something like a decade of driving before you can reach cost parity, and that is assuming you have access to cheap electricity. e-SUVs and trucks are even more non-competitive.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>5sec 0-60. When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? Do you even know the 0-60 of your car? Do you realize how quick 5 second is to 60mph? Most sports cars of a generation ago couldn't touch that. Why do you feel it needs to be faster? It's plain dangerous to inexperienced drivers.

doublepg23 3y ago
Aren’t Lexus cars luxury?
- pipeline_peak 3y ago
  To some, to others they’re just Toyotas with leather seats ;)
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Lexus is the new Cadillacs they might have a 400 horsepower engine and really high performance but the people that drive them drive them like slugs. They're the cars of old conservative rich people that don't buy American and primarily considered reliability
rgbrenner 3y ago
I do know the 0-60 of my car... but that's not the point. I just want to make sure the reader doesn't think the range is low because it's some high performance car. It's just a normal Lexus suv that's not up to par in the EV category.
RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
Idk what the 0-60 of my leaf is but I beat every one off the line when I want to. It makes me far more comfortable on the freeway to get all the power I want on demand to quickly and safely make a maneuver. I would never have considered it before owning an EV, but now that I have one, I'll definitely be considerate of it in my next EV purchase. Previously I had only had crappy used ICE vehicles, and the acceleration was so bad it had never occurred to me how much better driving could be with good acceleration. I probably wouldn't include it in my calculus for an ICE vehicle, but I'll probably never purchase another ICE vehicle either.
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  Depends on the year, it used to be around 11s, latest models brought it down to 8-7 seconds. Normal ICE cars are in the 12-18s range, sometimes <10s but you’d look like a mad man revving your engine high enough to achieve that. 5s is ridiculously fast and that kind of acceleration should _never_ be used in the middle of traffic or city roads.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    My Tesla’s 0-60 makes a huge difference in normal driving, because the acceleration profile at low speeds is a lot more “do the right thing now”. Driving my minivan or other ICE cars feels laggy to me now.
    - RosanaAnaDana 3y ago
      This is the sense I was trying to communicate. I'm not flooring it, but when I make a speed adjustment, it happens 'right away'. There is no delay. Its immediate.
    - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      A lot of that is the automatic transmission in ICE drivetrains. a manual transmission delivers immediate acceleration but still not as good as a Tesla
  - 3y ago
ronnier 3y ago
I do. My Tesla 0-60 is 1.99~ and gets about 400 mile range
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
> When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? 1946 it seems: https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/c12-0603-icons-uncle-tom-mccahill/ https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/c12-0603-icons-unc...
pipeline_peak 3y ago
Because 0 to 60 in 5 means 0 to 30 in even less than it used to take. No need to be a sour puss, let car people love their cars
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> Why do you feel it needs to be faster? Because there's nothing I hate more than a car that doesn't respond when I try to accelerate.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  The amount of torque you get and how fast you get it is what you care about then, not 0-60 times. They're not really related. There are cars with good 0-60 times that have terrible fast-secondary/highway acceleration; cars with big turbos, for example, and overly aggressive throttle-input smoothing (for mileage.)
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    I don't get it. The faster a car accelerates from 0 to whatever speed, the higher acceleration it has. How could it not be related?
Dig1t 3y ago
For Americans: always For the rest of the world: I have no idea. I have seen car commercials my entire life stating the car's 0-60. EV's I think are especially good for this though because it's fun to accelerate in an EV. Fun does sell cars, see the Miata, S2000, every convertible, etc There are tons of examples. I, personally, as an average Joe, definitely would consider acceleration when buying a brand new car, I think it can be a good differentiator.
pengaru 3y ago
> When did this become a metric that mattered to any normal person? Are you seriously going to try gaslight us that nobody cares about 0-60 times? I'll be charitable and assume you're confusing max speed with 0-60. Most people care about 0-60 performance as it's what they experience after.every.single.stop. They may not know the documented 0-60 time, but they generally know and appreciate better acceleration. But I do doubt most people know the actual top speed of their vehicles, and relatively few have ever operated their vehicles near or at vmax.
hedora 3y ago
5 sec is slow-ish by EV standards. The more important questions (for me) are how well it handles on curves, how efficient it is and what the range is. The energy efficiency and weight (in American metrics) are 5.32 mi/kwh (extremely good), and a bit over 4000 lbs (pretty heavy; makes me wonder about handling), with well under 300 miles of range, depending on conditions. So... It looks like it'd appeal to the people I know that buy Lexus cars. That's not me, but I hope they sell a lot of them. https://ev-database.org/car/1943/Lexus-UX-300e https://ev-database.org/car/1943/Lexus-UX-300e
fragmede 3y ago
Are we gatekeeping liking fast, expensive cars now? Cars are an absolute fixture of American society, and even a blind person can feel the difference between a 5-second 0-60 and a 15-second 0-60. It's fair to point out that, eg, a Corvette from 1960 was slower than 5 seconds for 0-60, but you don't have to be a total gearhead to want to be the fastest off the light.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
There's a saying in car manufacturers that Americans buy horsepower but drive torque. Torque is generally what you need when you need that. Beat the person off the line because you didn't merge into the right turn lane early enough acceleration onto the highway and two lane highway passing. Horsepower is largely a metric for top speed of the vehicle, and if we're talking about in a relative statistic for road cars, top speed is far more useless than 0-60
rasz 3y ago
It matters when your competitor sells cheaper product accelerating almost twice as fast and offering almost twice the range. It makes you look like a huge scammer.

RosanaAnaDana 3y ago

>196mi range Oof size "La Grande".

BizarreByte 3y ago

I don't know what Toyota's future looks like in terms of electrics, but I know that I won't own an electric car until they sell an electric Corolla, or something equivalent.

willmadden 3y ago
Just get the new Prius Prime. The battery is large enough to go 44+ miles all electric, plus you can still use gasoline for long road trips. It has more cargo space than a corolla and actually looks kind of cool.
hedora 3y ago
I wouldn't hold my breath for something called a "Corolla". Their roadmap is a big gaping hole for the next 3 years. However, this exists, and kind of looks like a tall Corolla: https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/ https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/
- d0gbread 3y ago
  What's the model called? I think someone accidentally base64 encoded it.
  - psd1 3y ago
    Corolla=
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    We just call it the Burzum =)

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

They're trying to Osborne effect their competitors. Don't buy our competitors EVs, something much better is coming soon we promise...

tuatoru 3y ago
It's more a sequence of the Innovator's Dilemma, and the IBM Salesman's Sex Life: [IBM salesman's wife]: All my husband does is sit on the end of the bed and tell me how great it's going to be.
theshrike79 3y ago
Toyota has insane brand loyalty, at least over here. There are people who have driven cars for 40-50 years and every car has been a Toyota. These are the people they're trying to keep. "Our Super Great EV is just around the corner, but here's a new Toyota Corolla Hybrid for you for the mean time"

ricardobeat 3y ago

Overcompensating from their statements that EVs were a fad and hydrogen was the way to go?

dv_dt 3y ago
It’s Toyota version of the remote work snafu. Buying a futuristic car where you still have to go somewhere else to fill up is backwards compared to charging at home 99% of the time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

reducesuffering 3y ago

It's telling how ashamed they are at the range when they have an entire screen filled with info about how range is affected by a variety of conditions. And the actual 220mi/196mi range is found in tiny font hidden behind a tab.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

They were supposed to have solid state battery cars and vehicles for the Tokyo Olympics. It was obvious that wasn't going to happen and it didn't. Toyota has been completely asleep at the switch for EVs which is baffling since they pioneered the hybrid electric vehicle. What's really strange is after having such a huge lead and hybrid electric vehicle, they have really crawled behind other manufacturers and producing plug-in hybrid electric vehicles which are really just a plug adder onto the vehicle. It really is mystifying Keep in mind they're basically isn't a single car manufacturer outside of China and maybe Tesla that are actually doing original battery research. They are all partnering with actual battery manufacturers like Panasonic, Samsung, etc

_hypx 3y ago
It takes zero effort to make an EV. They are incredibly simple vehicles. People really need to let go of their EV fanboyism (and likely that includes Tesla fanboyism). In reality, if EVs were the future, Toyota would start making vast numbers of them in just a few years. The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. Until then, PHEVs and hybrids make a lot of sense. PS: A lot of these Chinese EV makers are scam companies propped up by the Chinese government. They have no ability beyond shoving giant batteries into generic chassis.
- acdha 3y ago
  > The real issue is that BEVs are not cost effective right now, and show no sign of that happening anytime soon. That must come as quite a surprise to all of the people who’ve already found them to be cost effective. Did you mean something like “gargantuan e-SUVs and trucks”?
  - _hypx 3y ago
    That either involve subsidies or significant sacrifices. The problem is that right now, a hybrid cost around $25k. It takes something like a decade of driving before you can reach cost parity, and that is assuming you have access to cheap electricity. e-SUVs and trucks are even more non-competitive.