3 ms·

I'm most curious about range anxiety, because I really feel like we're at the point where the vast majority of people's driving habits will fall into one of thr

I'm most curious about range anxiety, because I really feel like we're at the point where the vast majority of people's driving habits will fall into one of three categories: 1. Your driving habits make most/all EVs so clearly nonviable that you would never even consider an EV. If you're driving 400 miles a day in freezing temperatures far from any charging infrastructure, of course you're not getting an EV any time soon. 2. You don't drive that much every day, but you can't regularly charge at home or work, so you're not going to consider an EV. 3. Your driving habits are much closer to the average person, and with an EV you'd just charge at home or work a few times per week and never think about range. The situations where you'd ever experience range anxiety seem pretty narrow to me. It would basically only happen if you were in category 3 but needed to do a rare long road trip in an area without charging infrastructure.

rokkitmensch 3y ago
My wife has raging ADHD, and even though medicated, I would expect to have to deal with empty battery family logistics pages continually were I to put her in an EV. I'm none too fond of adding cognitive overhead to my life on top of that. I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week, and don't fancy adding a "charge the car" loop to my already burdensome family maintenance loops. EVs and range are like someone sticking their nose into a well tuned software/laundry/dishes process, inventing a problem, and complicating things inordinately for everyone who has to deal with it. I'll keep my 5-minute fillup for as long as I humanly can.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  I shouldn't presume to know how ADHD would affect someone's preference for vehicle type. That's totally fair. > EVs and range are like someone sticking their nose into a well tuned software/laundry/dishes process, inventing a problem, and complicating things inordinately for everyone who has to deal with it. I completely agree that the desire to avoid significant change is a fair reason to avoid EVs. I definitely don't agree with the characterization that it's "inventing a problem" and "complicating things inordinately". You'll spend way less of your time refueling an EV if you can charge where you already park at home or work.
- vel0city 3y ago
  That 5 minute fillup is monumentally longer than my 3 second fillup. I wait hours a year longer to recharge my ICE compared to my EV, and I put far more miles on my EV than my ICE.
  - MissTake 3y ago
    What is a “3 second fillup?” And what do you mean “Recharge my ICE”? Are you trying to infer that Internal Combustion engine vehicles are not refilled but “recharged”? And how does your singular personal anecdotal experience change the fact that range anxiety is a very real thing with EV vehicles?
    - vel0city 3y ago
      3-second fillup: when I pull into my garage, it takes me ~3-5 seconds to grab the plug off the wall right next to the car and plug it in. I then stop waiting on it, because I've got other stuff I'm doing now that I'm home. Sure, maybe it takes it 20 minutes or a couple of hours to replenish whatever charge I used, buts its not time I'm waiting. The only time I'm waiting on my EV is just the time to plug it in for easily 95% of the miles I do. The same experience would be had for most American drivers for the vast majority of their miles. Recharge my ICE: go out of my way to a gas station, negotiate payment, open the gas tank, pump the gas, put everything back, go back on my way. This is just all wasted time. I'm not realistically able to walk away and do some other task while all of this is happening, I'm an active participant in it all the way through or the time waiting isn't useful to actually do anything with (the several minutes of it actually pumping). Range anxiety is largely irrational for the average US driver. The majority of US drivers would spend less time and money charging an EV than paying for gas. Sure, some people truly can't charge at home. However, the vast majority of US households live in a single family house, and then another big chunk live in townhouses and others that could probably easily add charging. Very, very few actually do the "drive off to the woods twice a week" kind of lifestyle. And even then, depending on how far away "the woods" are, it might not have any impact at all on waiting to charge. Were you going >100mi away to go on that quick bike or skiing trip? There's lots of bike trails around me within a 100mi radius or so, and I don't even live in a part of the country known for good biking.
mdp2021 3y ago
> category 3 but needed to do a rare long road trip In fact, we know people with an EV for commuting and chores, plus an ICV for long travel. (Of course this is exactly a slice of that "cat.3" for which such arrangement makes sense - it may possibly count many, but those "cat.1" and "cat.2" do exist. To be fair, there will also exist "cat.4" people who live in environments where cars are not a daily need.)
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
Or 4) You could charge at home but you have a long commute and forget to charge enough that range can become a problem.
boatsie 3y ago
Things are worse when you get to the details. The cars try to stay at 20-80% charge, so off the bat you somewhat “lose” 40% of the actual full stated range. And charging takes hours, not minutes, and charging stations don’t want you to leave the car there for a long time so you then have charge anxiety that forces you to unplug and move the car after exactly say 3 or 4 hours. The whole process is a bit anxiety producing.

rokkitmensch 3y ago

My wife has raging ADHD, and even though medicated, I would expect to have to deal with empty battery family logistics pages continually were I to put her in an EV. I'm none too fond of adding cognitive overhead to my life on top of that. I throw my bike/skis on the truck and drive out for fun times on a whim at least twice a week, and don't fancy adding a "charge the car" loop to my already burdensome family maintenance loops. EVs and range are like someone sticking their nose into a well tuned software/laundry/dishes process, inventing a problem, and complicating things inordinately for everyone who has to deal with it. I'll keep my 5-minute fillup for as long as I humanly can.

tshaddox 3y ago
I shouldn't presume to know how ADHD would affect someone's preference for vehicle type. That's totally fair. > EVs and range are like someone sticking their nose into a well tuned software/laundry/dishes process, inventing a problem, and complicating things inordinately for everyone who has to deal with it. I completely agree that the desire to avoid significant change is a fair reason to avoid EVs. I definitely don't agree with the characterization that it's "inventing a problem" and "complicating things inordinately". You'll spend way less of your time refueling an EV if you can charge where you already park at home or work.
vel0city 3y ago
That 5 minute fillup is monumentally longer than my 3 second fillup. I wait hours a year longer to recharge my ICE compared to my EV, and I put far more miles on my EV than my ICE.
- MissTake 3y ago
  What is a “3 second fillup?” And what do you mean “Recharge my ICE”? Are you trying to infer that Internal Combustion engine vehicles are not refilled but “recharged”? And how does your singular personal anecdotal experience change the fact that range anxiety is a very real thing with EV vehicles?
  - vel0city 3y ago
    3-second fillup: when I pull into my garage, it takes me ~3-5 seconds to grab the plug off the wall right next to the car and plug it in. I then stop waiting on it, because I've got other stuff I'm doing now that I'm home. Sure, maybe it takes it 20 minutes or a couple of hours to replenish whatever charge I used, buts its not time I'm waiting. The only time I'm waiting on my EV is just the time to plug it in for easily 95% of the miles I do. The same experience would be had for most American drivers for the vast majority of their miles. Recharge my ICE: go out of my way to a gas station, negotiate payment, open the gas tank, pump the gas, put everything back, go back on my way. This is just all wasted time. I'm not realistically able to walk away and do some other task while all of this is happening, I'm an active participant in it all the way through or the time waiting isn't useful to actually do anything with (the several minutes of it actually pumping). Range anxiety is largely irrational for the average US driver. The majority of US drivers would spend less time and money charging an EV than paying for gas. Sure, some people truly can't charge at home. However, the vast majority of US households live in a single family house, and then another big chunk live in townhouses and others that could probably easily add charging. Very, very few actually do the "drive off to the woods twice a week" kind of lifestyle. And even then, depending on how far away "the woods" are, it might not have any impact at all on waiting to charge. Were you going >100mi away to go on that quick bike or skiing trip? There's lots of bike trails around me within a 100mi radius or so, and I don't even live in a part of the country known for good biking.

mdp2021 3y ago

> category 3 but needed to do a rare long road trip In fact, we know people with an EV for commuting and chores, plus an ICV for long travel. (Of course this is exactly a slice of that "cat.3" for which such arrangement makes sense - it may possibly count many, but those "cat.1" and "cat.2" do exist. To be fair, there will also exist "cat.4" people who live in environments where cars are not a daily need.)

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

Or 4) You could charge at home but you have a long commute and forget to charge enough that range can become a problem.

boatsie 3y ago

Things are worse when you get to the details. The cars try to stay at 20-80% charge, so off the bat you somewhat “lose” 40% of the actual full stated range. And charging takes hours, not minutes, and charging stations don’t want you to leave the car there for a long time so you then have charge anxiety that forces you to unplug and move the car after exactly say 3 or 4 hours. The whole process is a bit anxiety producing.