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My company is working on this. 50 kWh modules, similar cost/kWh to battery storage, but no lithium or rare earths. Optimized for daily 0-100% cycling. http://w

My company is working on this. 50 kWh modules, similar cost/kWh to battery storage, but no lithium or rare earths. Optimized for daily 0-100% cycling. http://www.vortical.io http://www.vortical.io

cfn 3y ago
I hope flywheel storage takes off (no pun intended) it seems such a logic solution when compared with water elevation or chemical solutions. Why hasn't it gone mainstream yet?
- _ea1k 3y ago
  I remember being really hyped about flywheel energy storage... 20 years ago. I wonder if it has become more viable since then? And if so, what changed to improve viability?
  - cinntaile 3y ago
    https://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ https://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ These guys have two projects (check their operating plants) using flywheels. They're used for frequency regulation. About 20MW each.
  - standeven 3y ago
    They have become more viable thanks to higher efficiency motors/power components and magnetic bearings, among other things. The biggest drawback is still cost, which is what we're tackling.
  - jandrese 3y ago
    In the past they have been made to work, but they were not much better than batteries. With the price of batteries dropping like a stone I suspect they are going to have an even harder time competing.
    - standeven 3y ago
      There are several differences from batteries. Generally the benefits are faster charge and discharge rates, unlimited cycles without degradation, no lithium or rare earths needed, and wider operating temperatures. They are not good at long term storage though, as the self discharge rate is high. And historically they have been expensive.
- standeven 3y ago
  Cost, mainly. Most flywheels use exotic components, expensive magnetic bearings, must work in a vacuum, etc.
sanderjd 3y ago
Interesting! But 50kWh seems pretty small for (macro-) grid applications. How big are these units? Seems like most grid installations would want on the order of hundreds (~10MWh) to a few thousand (~100MWh) of these. Or do you plan to focus more on microgrids?
- standeven 3y ago
  The focus is on microgrids, but they're modular and can be installed below grade so you can add as many as needed. Approximately 2m diameter by 1m tall. We're still working out costing, but it might even make sense for residential use to take advantage of time-of-use rates or energy arbitrage. Other applications are industrial processes that require high power for short periods.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Cool! I'll definitely be following your progress with interest :) Hopefully constructive feedback: I would put that residential thing further down on your list. I think that stuff tends to be too complicated unless / until you can aggregate a lot of loads (eg. I think Tesla only recently recently started doing this stuff residentially. Probably awhile before you reach their scale...)

My company is working on this. 50 kWh modules, similar cost/kWh to battery storage, but no lithium or rare earths. Optimized for daily 0-100% cycling. http://www.vortical.io http://www.vortical.io

cfn 3y ago

I hope flywheel storage takes off (no pun intended) it seems such a logic solution when compared with water elevation or chemical solutions. Why hasn't it gone mainstream yet?

_ea1k 3y ago
I remember being really hyped about flywheel energy storage... 20 years ago. I wonder if it has become more viable since then? And if so, what changed to improve viability?
- cinntaile 3y ago
  https://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ https://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ These guys have two projects (check their operating plants) using flywheels. They're used for frequency regulation. About 20MW each.
- standeven 3y ago
  They have become more viable thanks to higher efficiency motors/power components and magnetic bearings, among other things. The biggest drawback is still cost, which is what we're tackling.
- jandrese 3y ago
  In the past they have been made to work, but they were not much better than batteries. With the price of batteries dropping like a stone I suspect they are going to have an even harder time competing.
  - standeven 3y ago
    There are several differences from batteries. Generally the benefits are faster charge and discharge rates, unlimited cycles without degradation, no lithium or rare earths needed, and wider operating temperatures. They are not good at long term storage though, as the self discharge rate is high. And historically they have been expensive.
standeven 3y ago
Cost, mainly. Most flywheels use exotic components, expensive magnetic bearings, must work in a vacuum, etc.

sanderjd 3y ago

Interesting! But 50kWh seems pretty small for (macro-) grid applications. How big are these units? Seems like most grid installations would want on the order of hundreds (~10MWh) to a few thousand (~100MWh) of these. Or do you plan to focus more on microgrids?

standeven 3y ago
The focus is on microgrids, but they're modular and can be installed below grade so you can add as many as needed. Approximately 2m diameter by 1m tall. We're still working out costing, but it might even make sense for residential use to take advantage of time-of-use rates or energy arbitrage. Other applications are industrial processes that require high power for short periods.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Cool! I'll definitely be following your progress with interest :) Hopefully constructive feedback: I would put that residential thing further down on your list. I think that stuff tends to be too complicated unless / until you can aggregate a lot of loads (eg. I think Tesla only recently recently started doing this stuff residentially. Probably awhile before you reach their scale...)