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Do you have some idea on how to do storage cheap at scale? There is a lot of money for anyone who has an easy technical remedy.
by mcculley 3y ago
Do you have some idea on how to do storage cheap at scale? There is a lot of money for anyone who has an easy technical remedy.
- mprovost 3y agoSolar pairs well with hydro - a reservoir is basically a big battery that you recharge by pumping water uphill.
- arwhatever 3y agoAny idea what the efficiency loss might be? I’m sure the loss is very high, but maybe could be overcome with ample solar inputs?
- pfdietz 3y agoModern pumped hydro has a round trip efficiency of around 80%, I understand.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://www.tesla.com/megapack https://www.tesla.com/megapack https://electrek.co/2023/04/19/tesla-reports-massive-increase-energy-storage-deployment-thanks-megafactory/ https://electrek.co/2023/04/19/tesla-reports-massive-increas... https://lorenz-g.github.io/tesla-megapack-tracker/ https://lorenz-g.github.io/tesla-megapack-tracker/ (on a smaller scale, to date, Tesla has deployed Powerwalls and Powerpacks at more than 50,000 sites worldwide; their Lathrop, CA facility is ramping to manufacture 40GWh/yr of capacity)
- kitd 3y agoDual feed power line, one for home electrics, one for immersion heater. Store excess renewably generated energy in household hot water tanks during the day, to be used in the evening in place of fossil-fuel generated supply, which also evens out load peaks as a side effect. This also works well with home solar.
- metabagel 3y agoI don’t understand. How do you convert hot water to electricity in the evening?
- datameta 3y agoThe Seebeck effect will definitely have less than 8% efficiency with 80C water. Perhaps GP means that the hot water will already be available to use for hygiene and laundry, which for those with an electric water heater, is a large portion of the household power draw. I'm not sure if a household sized water tank-full could provide heat over the course of a cold night, and whether a heat exchanger for air heating or water pipes would be more efficient. I suppose it depends on the insulation and placement of the ducts and pipes and how much of the heat makes it to and through a wall. I did some very crude calculations but assuming 50 gallons at 60C and 1000W energy loss per hour from a moderately insulated house on a 50F night, the full water heater could keep the house at 70F for 5.14 hours. Someone with more recent practical physics usage is welcome to check this figure.
- kitd 3y agoYou don't. It's stored energy. If your hot water is already heated, you save on the energy required to heat it in the evening.
- ClumsyPilot 3y agojust use it durectly fir showers and heating the house
- mcculley 3y agoThat is a good idea for places that need heat.
- zo1 3y agoDo the opposite (make lots of cold water) for places that need cooling. Am I missing something?
- boringg 3y agoTwo things: (1) Price signals have to be further clarified especially at a utility level for ancillary services (2) Battery system prices have been dropping quickly mainly as a function of Chinese manufacturers building out quickly e.g. CATL. Tesla is also helping. Competition is already there - its next how do you deploy your development costs for winning those assets.
- briffle 3y agoOn the west coast, there are pumped hydro storage projects in Southern Oregon (500MW) the Columbia River (~1GW) , and Nevada (~1GW). These are targeting 8-10 hours of sustained power when needed.
- standeven 3y agoMy company is working on this. 50 kWh modules, similar cost/kWh to battery storage, but no lithium or rare earths. Optimized for daily 0-100% cycling. http://www.vortical.io http://www.vortical.io
- cfn 3y agoI hope flywheel storage takes off (no pun intended) it seems such a logic solution when compared with water elevation or chemical solutions. Why hasn't it gone mainstream yet?
- _ea1k 3y agoI remember being really hyped about flywheel energy storage... 20 years ago. I wonder if it has become more viable since then? And if so, what changed to improve viability?
- cinntaile 3y agohttps://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ https://beaconpower.com/carbon-fiber-flywheels/ These guys have two projects (check their operating plants) using flywheels. They're used for frequency regulation. About 20MW each.
- standeven 3y agoThey have become more viable thanks to higher efficiency motors/power components and magnetic bearings, among other things. The biggest drawback is still cost, which is what we're tackling.
- jandrese 3y agoIn the past they have been made to work, but they were not much better than batteries. With the price of batteries dropping like a stone I suspect they are going to have an even harder time competing.
- standeven 3y ago