6 ms·

It does seem a bit surprising, I thought it was totally blocked on iOS without user consent?

TheMode 3y ago
I assume that it is dependent on the platform, and what you are accessing. The problem is that we first design platforms/APIs to automate everything, and secondly try to make it secure/explicit. We need the opposite.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Won't happen till laws demand it. Very few companies/programmers I know write 'secure first'. Most of the time it's "this shit isn't working, turn off the security stuff and see if it works then we'll re-enable it later"
  - TheMode 3y ago
    What app developers want/do is irrelevant. I am saying that it should be impossible for any individual app to access or connect to anything without explicit user consent. We need to stop automating everything and then complain that companies aren't putting optional banners everywhere. This is beyond stupid.
    - ianlevesque 3y ago
      For what it's worth, the opinion isn't universal. As a user I like the Haiku approach of not even having "user accounts" and on Linux I have 'sudo nopasswd ALL' on. Coddling everyone and sandboxing everything without any options to get that stuff out of the way isn't acceptable to me. Security or even privacy aren't always my top priority, and I should have that freedom available to me, even if you want the option not to have it.
      - TheMode 3y ago
        It is easier to build automation on top of a simpler/manual/secure process, than it is to make a fully automated system secure. I am not saying that automation shouldn't be possible at all, but that platforms shouldn't be designed this way. If users had to consent to contact access, socket connection, and every single packet sent (obviously they would need to become readable to layman) there would be way less demand for data privacy laws.
        pixl97 3y ago
        Honestly with most users the opposite seems to happen. They get warning fatigue and start clicking YES on everything
        TheMode 3y ago
        That's understandable, and so perhaps that we need to re-think our computing model to replace yes/no popups with something a bit more involving. By "involving" I do not necessarily mean harder, the goal isn't to make computers less accessible, but if we give users the ability to control whatever go in and out their devices maybe that making them a bit more interactive so instead of clicking "yes" to allow keyboard access you could drag a keyboard icon to the app or any other device you want to use as input instead. Consent doesn't need to be presented as yes/no, there are multiple ways to make users understand what is being accessed.
        trws 3y ago
        There are but anything that requires decisions, individual separate decisions, every time will induce fatigue. Addressing that problem isn’t going to happen by changing the ui presented at each individual interaction, it happens by finding a way to make the vast majority of those decisions ahead by stating your personal default, then overriding it as necessary. A process that can be done once, or occasionally, and applied 100 times can be involved and still be worthwhile. Making it involved and repeated ad nauseam is a good way to ensure nobody will actually bother every time.
jshier 3y ago
Local storage, whether straight to disk or through UserDefaults, has no permissions on iOS.
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
>The complainant installed the popular apps MyFitnessPal, Fnac and SeLoger on their Android smartphone.

I assume that it is dependent on the platform, and what you are accessing. The problem is that we first design platforms/APIs to automate everything, and secondly try to make it secure/explicit. We need the opposite.

pixl97 3y ago
Won't happen till laws demand it. Very few companies/programmers I know write 'secure first'. Most of the time it's "this shit isn't working, turn off the security stuff and see if it works then we'll re-enable it later"
- TheMode 3y ago
  What app developers want/do is irrelevant. I am saying that it should be impossible for any individual app to access or connect to anything without explicit user consent. We need to stop automating everything and then complain that companies aren't putting optional banners everywhere. This is beyond stupid.
  - ianlevesque 3y ago
    For what it's worth, the opinion isn't universal. As a user I like the Haiku approach of not even having "user accounts" and on Linux I have 'sudo nopasswd ALL' on. Coddling everyone and sandboxing everything without any options to get that stuff out of the way isn't acceptable to me. Security or even privacy aren't always my top priority, and I should have that freedom available to me, even if you want the option not to have it.
    - TheMode 3y ago
      It is easier to build automation on top of a simpler/manual/secure process, than it is to make a fully automated system secure. I am not saying that automation shouldn't be possible at all, but that platforms shouldn't be designed this way. If users had to consent to contact access, socket connection, and every single packet sent (obviously they would need to become readable to layman) there would be way less demand for data privacy laws.
      - pixl97 3y ago
        Honestly with most users the opposite seems to happen. They get warning fatigue and start clicking YES on everything
        TheMode 3y ago
        That's understandable, and so perhaps that we need to re-think our computing model to replace yes/no popups with something a bit more involving. By "involving" I do not necessarily mean harder, the goal isn't to make computers less accessible, but if we give users the ability to control whatever go in and out their devices maybe that making them a bit more interactive so instead of clicking "yes" to allow keyboard access you could drag a keyboard icon to the app or any other device you want to use as input instead. Consent doesn't need to be presented as yes/no, there are multiple ways to make users understand what is being accessed.
        trws 3y ago
        There are but anything that requires decisions, individual separate decisions, every time will induce fatigue. Addressing that problem isn’t going to happen by changing the ui presented at each individual interaction, it happens by finding a way to make the vast majority of those decisions ahead by stating your personal default, then overriding it as necessary. A process that can be done once, or occasionally, and applied 100 times can be involved and still be worthwhile. Making it involved and repeated ad nauseam is a good way to ensure nobody will actually bother every time.

jshier 3y ago

Local storage, whether straight to disk or through UserDefaults, has no permissions on iOS.

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

>The complainant installed the popular apps MyFitnessPal, Fnac and SeLoger on their Android smartphone.