3 ms·

Over longer distances it is more economical to use hydrogen as intermediary for electricity transport, as it can be moved through pipelines and ships and takes

by Joeri 3y ago

Over longer distances it is more economical to use hydrogen as intermediary for electricity transport, as it can be moved through pipelines and ships and takes its loss mostly in the conversion, not the distance moved. Other benefits are the ability to time shift loads and to use the hydrogen directly in industrial processes. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211467X21000444 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211467X2... This is why the EU has plans to build out a large hydrogen transportation and storage grid. https://www.h2inframap.eu/ https://www.h2inframap.eu/

toomuchtodo 3y ago
> HVDC transmission losses are quoted at 3.5% per 1,000 km (620 mi) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_curren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_curren > The Changji-Guquan ultra-high-voltage direct current (UHVDC) transmission line in China is the world’s first transmission line operating at 1,100kV voltage. The transmission line traverses for a total distance of 3,324km and is capable of transmitting up to 12GW of electricity. https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhvdc-transmission-project/ https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhv... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity_transmission_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity... Losses can be compensated for with...more renewable generation. (note that the above distance is roughly the distance across Europe east-west, distance across the US is a bit more, but you don't need to pull east coast generation all the way to west coast load centers or vice versa)
bfrog 3y ago
This is interesting. I guess I would've have expected more and more localized generation and coordination rather than long distance transmission and storage, but maybe it will be more of a combination of things. Thanks for the insights, its not something I really thought of before.
pfdietz 3y ago
Also, if you pay the cost of making the hydrogen, you can use it not only for transmission, but also for storage at both ends of the pipeline. This allows the pipeline to be operated at constant high load, allows smoothing of the production fluctuations, and smooths demand fluctuations too. Multiple bites from one apple. The cost of a hydrogen pipeline is only slightly larger than that of a methane pipeline of the same BTU capacity, even though the energy value of a hydrogen molecule is considerably less than a methane molecule. That's because hydrogen has considerably lower viscosity, which reduces pumping costs.

by Joeri 3y ago

toomuchtodo 3y ago

> HVDC transmission losses are quoted at 3.5% per 1,000 km (620 mi) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_curren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_curren > The Changji-Guquan ultra-high-voltage direct current (UHVDC) transmission line in China is the world’s first transmission line operating at 1,100kV voltage. The transmission line traverses for a total distance of 3,324km and is capable of transmitting up to 12GW of electricity. https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhvdc-transmission-project/ https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/changji-guquan-uhv... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity_transmission_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-voltage_electricity... Losses can be compensated for with...more renewable generation. (note that the above distance is roughly the distance across Europe east-west, distance across the US is a bit more, but you don't need to pull east coast generation all the way to west coast load centers or vice versa)

bfrog 3y ago

This is interesting. I guess I would've have expected more and more localized generation and coordination rather than long distance transmission and storage, but maybe it will be more of a combination of things. Thanks for the insights, its not something I really thought of before.

pfdietz 3y ago

Also, if you pay the cost of making the hydrogen, you can use it not only for transmission, but also for storage at both ends of the pipeline. This allows the pipeline to be operated at constant high load, allows smoothing of the production fluctuations, and smooths demand fluctuations too. Multiple bites from one apple. The cost of a hydrogen pipeline is only slightly larger than that of a methane pipeline of the same BTU capacity, even though the energy value of a hydrogen molecule is considerably less than a methane molecule. That's because hydrogen has considerably lower viscosity, which reduces pumping costs.