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>I think we're still in such a good position relative to everyone else in society that it's difficult to see the need for collective bargaining. Corps have bee

>I think we're still in such a good position relative to everyone else in society that it's difficult to see the need for collective bargaining. Corps have been pushing down wages for decades. Here's some methods: - Offshoring - Automation - Skeleton teams - Long hours - Removal of bonuses for anyone but managers - Removal of signing bonuses (this was a thing in the late 90s) - Recruiters posing mid level people as seniors. - No or inadequate inflation raises - Coordinated layoffs (flood the market, hire back what you need at deflated prices) - Little or no on site skill training (this was also big in the late 90s) - A few large, entrenched tech companies. The math is: total developer hours needed - total developer hours available = surplus and higher wages. When you automate your daily grind, you get more done. When you get more done, the total developer hours needed is less. Multiply this by around 2 million developers and and pushes down wages. They're boiling frogs here. >So long as tech workers are difficult to replace, they already have considerable power. You may think that, but the phrase, "no one is irreplaceable," and "the graveyard is full of irreplaceable people," is still true. Go piss off your CEO, call him incompetent or something, and see how replaceable you really are. He will ditch you and make everyone else pick up the load.

pjc50 3y ago
This is true; I myself have had a below-inflation pay rise and some colleagues made redundant. I'm still paid more than 95% of people in my country. What that highlights is just how bad the inequality curve really is, that the 0.1% right on one edge have exceptional power to make decisions which make the rest worse off. What this means is that any tech union is going to have to extend a bit of solidarity out to lower paid and ""lower skilled"" people against whom we have traditionally been snobbish, in order to be successful. See the Hollywood millionares out donating to the rest of their picket lines, for example. You can't just look "up" the curve at your salary getting ever higher. You have to look "down" as well, without contempt. > "anyone is replaceable," is still true Was it Napoleon who said "the graveyards are full of irreplaceable men"? Also true.
- Clubber 3y ago
  >I'm still paid more than 95% of people in my country. What makes you think you aren't worth much, much more? What would happen to your company if all the tech people went on vacation for a month? CEO's don't think, "We make more than 95% of businesses in our industry, I guess we can relax now." We have to act like the CEO of our careers. Also, most tech workers in the US aren't in the top 5% of earners. Unless you are in a high position at a large company, you're probably top 15-25%. Might wanna check. >Was it Napoleon who said "the graveyards are full of irreplaceable men"? Also true. I remember Jobs saying it, but he was known for adopting other people's sayings. >You can't just look "up" the curve at your salary getting ever higher. You have to look "down" as well, without contempt. Yes, tech people's elitism isn't a beneficial trait. It's good when selling yourself, but once that's done, we should drop it. FWIW, a tech union, if done right, would probably be the strongest union in history. Think Dune and Ix.
  - pjc50 3y ago
    > most tech workers aren't in the top 5% of earners No, I really did check https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f... before posting that stat. (I guess this is where Americans start discovering how badly paid the UK as a whole is)
    - Clubber 3y ago
      >I guess this is where Americans start discovering how badly paid the UK as a whole is Holy moly. In the US you have to earn just over $240K USD/yr to break the top 5%. At least you don't go bankrupt when it's time for elder care. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/24/how-much-money-you-have-to-earn-to-be-in-the-top-1percent-in-every-us-state.html#:~:text=While%20the%20top%201%25%20earned,top%201%25%20in%20your%20state https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/24/how-much-money-you-have-to-e....

pjc50 3y ago

This is true; I myself have had a below-inflation pay rise and some colleagues made redundant. I'm still paid more than 95% of people in my country. What that highlights is just how bad the inequality curve really is, that the 0.1% right on one edge have exceptional power to make decisions which make the rest worse off. What this means is that any tech union is going to have to extend a bit of solidarity out to lower paid and ""lower skilled"" people against whom we have traditionally been snobbish, in order to be successful. See the Hollywood millionares out donating to the rest of their picket lines, for example. You can't just look "up" the curve at your salary getting ever higher. You have to look "down" as well, without contempt. > "anyone is replaceable," is still true Was it Napoleon who said "the graveyards are full of irreplaceable men"? Also true.

Clubber 3y ago
>I'm still paid more than 95% of people in my country. What makes you think you aren't worth much, much more? What would happen to your company if all the tech people went on vacation for a month? CEO's don't think, "We make more than 95% of businesses in our industry, I guess we can relax now." We have to act like the CEO of our careers. Also, most tech workers in the US aren't in the top 5% of earners. Unless you are in a high position at a large company, you're probably top 15-25%. Might wanna check. >Was it Napoleon who said "the graveyards are full of irreplaceable men"? Also true. I remember Jobs saying it, but he was known for adopting other people's sayings. >You can't just look "up" the curve at your salary getting ever higher. You have to look "down" as well, without contempt. Yes, tech people's elitism isn't a beneficial trait. It's good when selling yourself, but once that's done, we should drop it. FWIW, a tech union, if done right, would probably be the strongest union in history. Think Dune and Ix.
- pjc50 3y ago
  > most tech workers aren't in the top 5% of earners No, I really did check https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-f... before posting that stat. (I guess this is where Americans start discovering how badly paid the UK as a whole is)
  - Clubber 3y ago
    >I guess this is where Americans start discovering how badly paid the UK as a whole is Holy moly. In the US you have to earn just over $240K USD/yr to break the top 5%. At least you don't go bankrupt when it's time for elder care. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/24/how-much-money-you-have-to-earn-to-be-in-the-top-1percent-in-every-us-state.html#:~:text=While%20the%20top%201%25%20earned,top%201%25%20in%20your%20state https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/24/how-much-money-you-have-to-e....