4 ms·

I'm just wondering when we're gonna get tagged filesystems. Maybe something partially hierarchical. Would love a book/ directory that i can query for 'sci-fi' o

I'm just wondering when we're gonna get tagged filesystems. Maybe something partially hierarchical. Would love a book/ directory that i can query for 'sci-fi' or 'specification'. I guess one could implement it using sym-links :^)

baz00 3y ago
Don't even go there with the symlinks. My mother made a family tree on windows with folders and shortcuts. It broke OneDrive and robocopy completely. I don't even know how to help her fix it.
- virtue3 3y ago
  It's 3 in the morning and I couldn't stop laughing out loud when I read this. Poor OneDrive lol. I hope she managed to keep all her files and didn't lose anything.
  - baz00 3y ago
    It still works and she hasn't lost anything but you can't actually move or delete any files any more because windows explorer craps out too! I literally have no idea what to do with it :(
    - hobs 3y ago
      My assumption is she ran into the max path length limitation, here's how to fix it https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maximum-file-path-limitation?tabs=registry#enable-long-paths-in-windows-10-version-1607-and-later https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maxim...
      - baz00 3y ago
        That was one of the problems. Unfortunately after fixing that it's still broken.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  On one hand this is an edge case, on the other things like this make me wonder how computers can even work if first-party software built specifically for nothing but managing files fails to gracefully handle a folder structure a user created by hand.
  - baz00 3y ago
    That was exactly my take home from this. Windows has some very serious flaws in it when it comes to data integrity. I do not trust it and do not use it myself.
- mceachen 3y ago
  You could write a short PowerShell script that recursively deletes shortcuts and symlinks, but I'd certainly take a full backup and have it offline before I kicked out off.
theshrike79 3y ago
There are some attempts using Fuse on Linux. At least one I tried ages ago was one you could use to browse your music collection, it automatically generated "directories" based on mp3tags.
Brajeshwar 3y ago
Apple tried doing this with "tag" in the file system but most people don't use it.
- baz00 3y ago
  I use it! :)
  - Brajeshwar 3y ago
    Don’t Do That. Don’t Give Me Hope.
  - smallerdemon 3y ago
    Same.
- hnbad 3y ago
  Microsoft allegedly wanted to get rid of the folder hiearchy completely. There were a lot of rumors surrounding "Windows 97" (what later became Windows 98) because of its Internet integration (which eventually just turned into a lot of dead-end MSN widgets and Internet Explorer being shipped with the OS). I don't know how well-founded this speculation was but allegedly Microsoft wanted to fully commit to things like "cloud storage" (before this was a thing, so of course not using this name) and ended up shelving most of this work because the networks just weren't fast enough at the time. Note: I specifically remember these speculations in the lead-up to the release of Windows 98. They don't seem to be easy to google at this point.
timschmidt 3y ago
May 10, 1997: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_File_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_File_System
pedrovhb 3y ago
I just wish xattrs were more resilient and explicit.
Cyphase 3y ago
The author of TMSU left a sibling comment to yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37507343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37507343 https://tmsu.org/ https://tmsu.org/ > TMSU is a tool for tagging your files. It provides a simple command-line tool for applying tags and a virtual filesystem so that you can get a tag-based view of your files from within any other program. > TMSU does not alter your files in any way: they remain unchanged on disk, or on the network, wherever you put them. TMSU maintains its own database and you simply gain an additional view, which you can mount, based upon the tags you set up. The only commitment required is your time and there's absolutely no lock-in.
- notfed 3y ago
  Got me wondering how it tracks file moves. From the FAQ: > TMSU [does] not automatically detect file moves and renames I dunno if we can call it a tagged filesystem with this limitation. (Why not store tags, or at least a GUID, in file metadata?)
  - istjohn 3y ago
    It does store file hashes. It has a repair command that will use file hashes to find moved files. I don't know how well it works.
  - dotancohen 3y ago
    This seems a serious limitation. Bash is my file manager - ls and cd. I would not give that up for any tool no matter how convenient. But presumably there is some API or ABI to monitor, or some signal emitted, when files are moved, added, updated, or deleted. However iwaitnotify works, could that be incorporated (even theoretically) into TMSU?
    - Cyphase 3y ago
      https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/FAQ#why-does-tmsu-not-automatically-detect-file-moves-and-renames https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/FAQ#why-does-tmsu-not-au... There are a couple very barebones wrappers around mv and rm, though they could be better (pass through arguments, etc.). https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/Tricks-and-Tips#filesystem-operations https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/Tricks-and-Tips#filesyst...
dredmorbius 3y ago
The approach I've been favouring for a while has been to have a data store, I call it the "stacks", based off physical library nomenclature, and then a virtual filesystem which effectively uses searches along various attributes to surface individual items. Those searches might be based on title, author/creator/contributor, publication/creation dates, assigned identifiers, full-text search, relations between documents, subjects or topics, document type / format, or other aspects. How that is specified precisely ... I haven't settled on entirely, though short mnemonics, two- or three-letter where possible (ti -> title, au -> author, date, isbn, oclc, doi, etc.) might work. If the filesystem lives under /docfs, then, say, /docfs/au:barrie/ti:peter+pan would turn up J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan. Specific document identifiers such as ISBNs, OCLCs, DOIs, or LCCSs could pinpoint specific documents, looser searches such as for Peter Pan might generate a list rather than a unitary response but those individual documents would be further distinguished by other properties. The filesystem would be virtual rather than static-on-disk. You're effectively exploring the namespace. Creating this as a filesystem rather than, say, as a database query or application-specific data store means that standard filesystem tools would be available to interact with the contents, though modifications of works might require some additional work. The system could also provide access to works not directly in the stacks, including remote resources (e.g., accessed via URIs and network calls), or applications (through some API). The underlying data store could be in any of several formats, and again the filesystem-based access could abstract between several independent stores. Now all I need to do is build it ...
- Cyphase 3y ago
  This sounds at least somewhat like TMSU, which has been mentioned in some other comments here. https://tmsu.org/ https://tmsu.org/
  - dredmorbius 3y ago
    I've seen that, yes. There are some similarities, and I'm thinking that TMSU might serve as a component of this system.

baz00 3y ago

Don't even go there with the symlinks. My mother made a family tree on windows with folders and shortcuts. It broke OneDrive and robocopy completely. I don't even know how to help her fix it.

virtue3 3y ago
It's 3 in the morning and I couldn't stop laughing out loud when I read this. Poor OneDrive lol. I hope she managed to keep all her files and didn't lose anything.
- baz00 3y ago
  It still works and she hasn't lost anything but you can't actually move or delete any files any more because windows explorer craps out too! I literally have no idea what to do with it :(
  - hobs 3y ago
    My assumption is she ran into the max path length limitation, here's how to fix it https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maximum-file-path-limitation?tabs=registry#enable-long-paths-in-windows-10-version-1607-and-later https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/maxim...
    - baz00 3y ago
      That was one of the problems. Unfortunately after fixing that it's still broken.
alpaca128 3y ago
On one hand this is an edge case, on the other things like this make me wonder how computers can even work if first-party software built specifically for nothing but managing files fails to gracefully handle a folder structure a user created by hand.
- baz00 3y ago
  That was exactly my take home from this. Windows has some very serious flaws in it when it comes to data integrity. I do not trust it and do not use it myself.
mceachen 3y ago
You could write a short PowerShell script that recursively deletes shortcuts and symlinks, but I'd certainly take a full backup and have it offline before I kicked out off.

theshrike79 3y ago

There are some attempts using Fuse on Linux. At least one I tried ages ago was one you could use to browse your music collection, it automatically generated "directories" based on mp3tags.

Brajeshwar 3y ago

Apple tried doing this with "tag" in the file system but most people don't use it.

baz00 3y ago
I use it! :)
- Brajeshwar 3y ago
  Don’t Do That. Don’t Give Me Hope.
- smallerdemon 3y ago
  Same.
hnbad 3y ago
Microsoft allegedly wanted to get rid of the folder hiearchy completely. There were a lot of rumors surrounding "Windows 97" (what later became Windows 98) because of its Internet integration (which eventually just turned into a lot of dead-end MSN widgets and Internet Explorer being shipped with the OS). I don't know how well-founded this speculation was but allegedly Microsoft wanted to fully commit to things like "cloud storage" (before this was a thing, so of course not using this name) and ended up shelving most of this work because the networks just weren't fast enough at the time. Note: I specifically remember these speculations in the lead-up to the release of Windows 98. They don't seem to be easy to google at this point.

timschmidt 3y ago

May 10, 1997: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_File_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_File_System

pedrovhb 3y ago

I just wish xattrs were more resilient and explicit.

Cyphase 3y ago

The author of TMSU left a sibling comment to yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37507343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37507343 https://tmsu.org/ https://tmsu.org/ > TMSU is a tool for tagging your files. It provides a simple command-line tool for applying tags and a virtual filesystem so that you can get a tag-based view of your files from within any other program. > TMSU does not alter your files in any way: they remain unchanged on disk, or on the network, wherever you put them. TMSU maintains its own database and you simply gain an additional view, which you can mount, based upon the tags you set up. The only commitment required is your time and there's absolutely no lock-in.

notfed 3y ago
Got me wondering how it tracks file moves. From the FAQ: > TMSU [does] not automatically detect file moves and renames I dunno if we can call it a tagged filesystem with this limitation. (Why not store tags, or at least a GUID, in file metadata?)
- istjohn 3y ago
  It does store file hashes. It has a repair command that will use file hashes to find moved files. I don't know how well it works.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  This seems a serious limitation. Bash is my file manager - ls and cd. I would not give that up for any tool no matter how convenient. But presumably there is some API or ABI to monitor, or some signal emitted, when files are moved, added, updated, or deleted. However iwaitnotify works, could that be incorporated (even theoretically) into TMSU?
  - Cyphase 3y ago
    https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/FAQ#why-does-tmsu-not-automatically-detect-file-moves-and-renames https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/FAQ#why-does-tmsu-not-au... There are a couple very barebones wrappers around mv and rm, though they could be better (pass through arguments, etc.). https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/Tricks-and-Tips#filesystem-operations https://github.com/oniony/TMSU/wiki/Tricks-and-Tips#filesyst...

dredmorbius 3y ago

The approach I've been favouring for a while has been to have a data store, I call it the "stacks", based off physical library nomenclature, and then a virtual filesystem which effectively uses searches along various attributes to surface individual items. Those searches might be based on title, author/creator/contributor, publication/creation dates, assigned identifiers, full-text search, relations between documents, subjects or topics, document type / format, or other aspects. How that is specified precisely ... I haven't settled on entirely, though short mnemonics, two- or three-letter where possible (ti -> title, au -> author, date, isbn, oclc, doi, etc.) might work. If the filesystem lives under /docfs, then, say, /docfs/au:barrie/ti:peter+pan would turn up J.M. Barrie's Peter Pan. Specific document identifiers such as ISBNs, OCLCs, DOIs, or LCCSs could pinpoint specific documents, looser searches such as for Peter Pan might generate a list rather than a unitary response but those individual documents would be further distinguished by other properties. The filesystem would be virtual rather than static-on-disk. You're effectively exploring the namespace. Creating this as a filesystem rather than, say, as a database query or application-specific data store means that standard filesystem tools would be available to interact with the contents, though modifications of works might require some additional work. The system could also provide access to works not directly in the stacks, including remote resources (e.g., accessed via URIs and network calls), or applications (through some API). The underlying data store could be in any of several formats, and again the filesystem-based access could abstract between several independent stores. Now all I need to do is build it ...

Cyphase 3y ago
This sounds at least somewhat like TMSU, which has been mentioned in some other comments here. https://tmsu.org/ https://tmsu.org/
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  I've seen that, yes. There are some similarities, and I'm thinking that TMSU might serve as a component of this system.