3 ms·

It's not surprising that you're defending Microsoft. They have had a very successful marketing campaign leaving the impression that "Microsoft changed". But th

It's not surprising that you're defending Microsoft. They have had a very successful marketing campaign leaving the impression that "Microsoft changed". But they are still the same company that threatened Linux with patents and FUD campaigns, that collects royalties from Android and that has turned Windows into ad-ridden spyware.

politelemon 3y ago
> They have had a very successful marketing campaign leaving the impression that "Microsoft changed". No. It is their actions which have shown that they are a different entity now, and are much more friendly towards the open source community, which has left a good impression. They are still a large entity, they still perform evil or brain-dead actions. None of that is marketing, it is simply strategic shifts that happen in large companies. It isn't there ms of old that people like to keep dredging up, and it is unhelpful that a vociferous anti ms crowd on HN considers this "defending", all this does is create polarisation. It is observing. Many of us have observed their changes. That is all. A marketing campaign example of the type you refer to would be apple's "privacy" campaigns which convince people that privacy means giving up their privacy to their ecosystem. They are actively promoted and defended on HN. No mention of past misdeeds are entertained.
- bad_user 3y ago
  I think you may be confusing marketing with advertising. And note that I'm no Apple or Google fan either. Microsoft has always built excellent developer tools. Even before VS Code, Visual Studio for Windows has been one of the best, if not the best, IDE. And it wasn't open source, but nowadays, it's tough to compete in a world in which even IntelliJ IDEA has a FOSS "community edition". The open-sourcing of .NET happened because they've lost the mobile, and .NET was dying due to Java's and JavaScript's dominance. But even today, the development of .NET Core has plenty of shenanigans behind closed doors; the difference in how Oracle (of all companies) treats the Java community as a partner in developing new stuff is appalling (see Project Loom). So we've got VS Code, .NET Core, some inevitable Linux contributions due to Azure, and the acquisition of GitHub, which is now used for open-source laundering via Copilot, copyright licences be damned. What else? The only thing that changed for Microsoft is their shift to Azure. They are still the same boring old corporation that wants to crush their competition by any means necessary, monopoly power included.

politelemon 3y ago

> They have had a very successful marketing campaign leaving the impression that "Microsoft changed". No. It is their actions which have shown that they are a different entity now, and are much more friendly towards the open source community, which has left a good impression. They are still a large entity, they still perform evil or brain-dead actions. None of that is marketing, it is simply strategic shifts that happen in large companies. It isn't there ms of old that people like to keep dredging up, and it is unhelpful that a vociferous anti ms crowd on HN considers this "defending", all this does is create polarisation. It is observing. Many of us have observed their changes. That is all. A marketing campaign example of the type you refer to would be apple's "privacy" campaigns which convince people that privacy means giving up their privacy to their ecosystem. They are actively promoted and defended on HN. No mention of past misdeeds are entertained.

bad_user 3y ago
I think you may be confusing marketing with advertising. And note that I'm no Apple or Google fan either. Microsoft has always built excellent developer tools. Even before VS Code, Visual Studio for Windows has been one of the best, if not the best, IDE. And it wasn't open source, but nowadays, it's tough to compete in a world in which even IntelliJ IDEA has a FOSS "community edition". The open-sourcing of .NET happened because they've lost the mobile, and .NET was dying due to Java's and JavaScript's dominance. But even today, the development of .NET Core has plenty of shenanigans behind closed doors; the difference in how Oracle (of all companies) treats the Java community as a partner in developing new stuff is appalling (see Project Loom). So we've got VS Code, .NET Core, some inevitable Linux contributions due to Azure, and the acquisition of GitHub, which is now used for open-source laundering via Copilot, copyright licences be damned. What else? The only thing that changed for Microsoft is their shift to Azure. They are still the same boring old corporation that wants to crush their competition by any means necessary, monopoly power included.