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> new UI project It’s incredible to me how many people choose VS Code because of its aesthetics, so it is by all means the right thing to focus on.

bowsamic 3y ago
Yep I only recently started to using CLion bc I find the new UI to be much more comfortable
pxc 3y ago
That's really interesting. What makes VSCode's aesthetic so distinctive and appealing? As an infrequent user of it, I don't really see how it stands out. (The main things that stand out about it to me as an Emacs user is that it has pop-ups/nags/splash tabs that I have to dismiss whenever I open it.)
- dromtrund 3y ago
  It's not obvious if you come from emacs, but the keyboard centric navigation is very different from traditional IDEs, that usually come with a wide array of buttons with weird icons at the top. A few other aspects: - dark mode by default - web tech UI, not terminal - decent looking widgets and decorations I don't think these are the main selling points for vscode, but they do all of this better than their competitors.
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  Not the person you were replying to but I've found VS Code treads the right line for me between editor and IDE. It feels like a text editor first and the UI is pretty similar to SumblimeText and TextMate which I used before, neither of which had much in the way of IDE features. But I think the reason VS Code has become so popular is that along with its editor centric UI it has Emacs like extensibility. Plugins are easily written in JavaScript and it originated the Language Server Protocol which makes it possible to write language integrations in the target language. I've not used the newer version of IntelliJ since the redesign, but I always found it somewhat overwhelming, with all this stuff which prevented me from focussing on the code I was writing. The old version had pretty poor UI performance too, whereas the VS Code UI is fast enough that I rarely notice any UI slowdown. Nevertheless IntelliJ is pretty indispensable for Java/Kotlin development. It's code sense features are excellent and there are a lot of projects out there that don't really build except through IntelliJ's automatic Gradle setup. FWIW the only pop-up like things I see with VS Code are extension suggestions when I open a file with a new language extension and the monthly update change logs.
  - mcluck 3y ago
    I agree completely. I switch between VS Code and IntelliJ at work so I'm comfortable with both but I would also call the UI in IntelliJ overwhelming. It's covered in buttons, panels coming out in all directions, the Git UI doesn't integrate with the normal file view which makes everything feel cramped when I access it, I've got a variety of pop-ups coming up for all sorts of things, etc. In VS Code, I usually see a file explorer, the files I have open, the Problems panel and a terminal panel. All of the other stuff is hidden behind sections that, when clicked, simply replace the file explorer. Far less visual clutter
    - pacifika 3y ago
      It takes not a lot of time to disable the toolbar or activate zen / distraction free mode.
      - hyperman1 3y ago
        But that's not the default, and you will need to spend some time finding your way in the product again.
  - pxc 3y ago
    > I've not used the newer version of IntelliJ since the redesign, but I always found it somewhat overwhelming Complicated GUIs (most GUIs targeting 'advanced' users, IME) likewise cause sensory/attentional overload for me, as well. If an escape from that kind of design is part of what drives people to VSCode, I totally get it! For me, keybindings and a command palette (or similar) are a much more natural way to include lots of cuntionality in an app without making it overwhelming to navigate visually.
- da39a3ee 3y ago
  You can configure it to have an extremely minimal UI. I remove the side bar and menu bar and work in Zen mode full screen. People often ask me what editor i'm using.
raincole 3y ago
> It’s incredible to me how many people choose VS Code because of its aesthetics No. VS code is popular because it's 1. Free and open source 2. Come with a lot of official extension [1] 3. Backed by MS which has the incentive to commondize code editors It's quite similar to Chrome. [1]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/publishers/Microsoft https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/publishers/Microsoft
- tirpen 3y ago
  Yes that too of course. But I have personally heard people more than one person completely dismiss JetBrain's IDEs because they didn't like how they looked.
- RadiozRadioz 3y ago
  Technically it's not Free (libre) or Open Source. The "VSCode" that people use is a proprietary telemetry-laiden application that cannot be reproducibly built from available source. You're probably wanting: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/
  - aa1234556 3y ago
    [dead]
  - da39a3ee 3y ago
    Telemetry is orthogonal to the concepts of Free/Open source. You sound like someone who just has an ideological objection to companies making money and producing text editors, and to proprietary software. However, many of the people here on HN work on proprietary software.
- wokwokwok 3y ago
  Jetbrains has plenty of extensions (1st party, high quality plugins that are far better than some of the 1st party Microsoft plugins) and no one cares if it's by Microsoft (what does "commondize code editors" even mean? Do you really think any vscode users care?). Honestly, I doubt most people even care it's kind-of open source (1). > 1. Free This is the reason most people use vscode. That's it. It's free, and it's pretty good. It's not better. It's just free. Nothing wrong with liking free stuff; free stuff is great; but don't confuse 'it didn't cost me anything' with 'it's good'. There's a difference between value (ie. for what you paid, you got something that was worth significantly more than you paid, which in this case is zero) and quality (independent of cost, the thing is just plain old good). vscode may be more valuable to people than jetbrains products, but it isn't a higher quality product. There's a massive difference between those two things. [1] - It's not open source 'technically'. https://ruky.me/2022/06/11/im-switching-form-vs-code-to-vs-codium/ https://ruky.me/2022/06/11/im-switching-form-vs-code-to-vs-c...

bowsamic 3y ago

Yep I only recently started to using CLion bc I find the new UI to be much more comfortable

pxc 3y ago

That's really interesting. What makes VSCode's aesthetic so distinctive and appealing? As an infrequent user of it, I don't really see how it stands out. (The main things that stand out about it to me as an Emacs user is that it has pop-ups/nags/splash tabs that I have to dismiss whenever I open it.)

dromtrund 3y ago
It's not obvious if you come from emacs, but the keyboard centric navigation is very different from traditional IDEs, that usually come with a wide array of buttons with weird icons at the top. A few other aspects: - dark mode by default - web tech UI, not terminal - decent looking widgets and decorations I don't think these are the main selling points for vscode, but they do all of this better than their competitors.
laurencerowe 3y ago
Not the person you were replying to but I've found VS Code treads the right line for me between editor and IDE. It feels like a text editor first and the UI is pretty similar to SumblimeText and TextMate which I used before, neither of which had much in the way of IDE features. But I think the reason VS Code has become so popular is that along with its editor centric UI it has Emacs like extensibility. Plugins are easily written in JavaScript and it originated the Language Server Protocol which makes it possible to write language integrations in the target language. I've not used the newer version of IntelliJ since the redesign, but I always found it somewhat overwhelming, with all this stuff which prevented me from focussing on the code I was writing. The old version had pretty poor UI performance too, whereas the VS Code UI is fast enough that I rarely notice any UI slowdown. Nevertheless IntelliJ is pretty indispensable for Java/Kotlin development. It's code sense features are excellent and there are a lot of projects out there that don't really build except through IntelliJ's automatic Gradle setup. FWIW the only pop-up like things I see with VS Code are extension suggestions when I open a file with a new language extension and the monthly update change logs.
- mcluck 3y ago
  I agree completely. I switch between VS Code and IntelliJ at work so I'm comfortable with both but I would also call the UI in IntelliJ overwhelming. It's covered in buttons, panels coming out in all directions, the Git UI doesn't integrate with the normal file view which makes everything feel cramped when I access it, I've got a variety of pop-ups coming up for all sorts of things, etc. In VS Code, I usually see a file explorer, the files I have open, the Problems panel and a terminal panel. All of the other stuff is hidden behind sections that, when clicked, simply replace the file explorer. Far less visual clutter
  - pacifika 3y ago
    It takes not a lot of time to disable the toolbar or activate zen / distraction free mode.
    - hyperman1 3y ago
      But that's not the default, and you will need to spend some time finding your way in the product again.
- pxc 3y ago
  > I've not used the newer version of IntelliJ since the redesign, but I always found it somewhat overwhelming Complicated GUIs (most GUIs targeting 'advanced' users, IME) likewise cause sensory/attentional overload for me, as well. If an escape from that kind of design is part of what drives people to VSCode, I totally get it! For me, keybindings and a command palette (or similar) are a much more natural way to include lots of cuntionality in an app without making it overwhelming to navigate visually.
da39a3ee 3y ago
You can configure it to have an extremely minimal UI. I remove the side bar and menu bar and work in Zen mode full screen. People often ask me what editor i'm using.

raincole 3y ago

> It’s incredible to me how many people choose VS Code because of its aesthetics No. VS code is popular because it's 1. Free and open source 2. Come with a lot of official extension [1] 3. Backed by MS which has the incentive to commondize code editors It's quite similar to Chrome. [1]: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/publishers/Microsoft https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/publishers/Microsoft

tirpen 3y ago
Yes that too of course. But I have personally heard people more than one person completely dismiss JetBrain's IDEs because they didn't like how they looked.
RadiozRadioz 3y ago
Technically it's not Free (libre) or Open Source. The "VSCode" that people use is a proprietary telemetry-laiden application that cannot be reproducibly built from available source. You're probably wanting: https://vscodium.com/ https://vscodium.com/
- aa1234556 3y ago
  [dead]
- da39a3ee 3y ago
  Telemetry is orthogonal to the concepts of Free/Open source. You sound like someone who just has an ideological objection to companies making money and producing text editors, and to proprietary software. However, many of the people here on HN work on proprietary software.
wokwokwok 3y ago
Jetbrains has plenty of extensions (1st party, high quality plugins that are far better than some of the 1st party Microsoft plugins) and no one cares if it's by Microsoft (what does "commondize code editors" even mean? Do you really think any vscode users care?). Honestly, I doubt most people even care it's kind-of open source (1). > 1. Free This is the reason most people use vscode. That's it. It's free, and it's pretty good. It's not better. It's just free. Nothing wrong with liking free stuff; free stuff is great; but don't confuse 'it didn't cost me anything' with 'it's good'. There's a difference between value (ie. for what you paid, you got something that was worth significantly more than you paid, which in this case is zero) and quality (independent of cost, the thing is just plain old good). vscode may be more valuable to people than jetbrains products, but it isn't a higher quality product. There's a massive difference between those two things. [1] - It's not open source 'technically'. https://ruky.me/2022/06/11/im-switching-form-vs-code-to-vs-codium/ https://ruky.me/2022/06/11/im-switching-form-vs-code-to-vs-c...