5 ms·

Lol, "millionaire" just means "middle class". "I have a not super desirable 2BR house about two hours outside a metro, which is now worth $600k, plus a 401k wo

Lol, "millionaire" just means "middle class". "I have a not super desirable 2BR house about two hours outside a metro, which is now worth $600k, plus a 401k worth $300k, and another $100k saved up. Can I retire?" (No.) ... In fact, since we're talking about a thousand millionaires, I need to point out: You know what that equals? One billionaire.

javagram 3y ago
There are a lot more than 1600 “millionaires” in the sense you’re describing. Moreover, people who just have a expensive house and some 401k savings won’t have 250k or more of back taxes owed. It’s likely a more accurate term for the 1600 targeted by this auditing would be multi-millionaires.
- jc_811 3y ago
  It’s not about raising anyone’s taxes, it’s about going after those who have back taxes they haven’t paid
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    Yeah, this is the proper emphasis. If people owe $250k in back taxes -- which is a lot -- then by all means they need to pay then. That's only right. But, this should be framed less as "going after millionaires", and more as "going after people who owe a lot of back taxes". So, I'm reacting less to the actual action by the government (which seems fair), and more to the title. "Millionaire" meant one thing when "Monopoly" was released; it means something else today.
postalrat 3y ago
You can retire but choose not to.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  If my character wanted to retire, I think they'd need to sell the house and move to a low-cost country. Maybe it could work in the US if they're old enough to qualify for social security.
  - postalrat 3y ago
    Assuming the house is paid off keep it and live off your $400k. That should last for a very long time. You won't be paying income taxes, can probably get free health care. Wouldn't be hard at all.
flangola7 3y ago
$300k in 401k alone puts you in the upper class of Americans. In 2020, median household (note, not individual) net worth in the United States was $121,411. This includes home equity. $1,000,000 in assets is the 88th percentile, far above "middle class." I'm privileged to do very well for myself, I'm an expert in a very well paying field (far more than my siblings even though they have masters and doctorates), and I do not know any millionaires. These numbers also become significantly worse when filtered to anyone born after 1980.
- vuln 3y ago
  > These numbers also become significantly worse when filtered to anyone born after 1980. I’m interested in these numbers can you expand? Thank you.
- thrwawy_obv_rsn 3y ago
  This is fascinating to me, because my experience is almost the opposite: nearly everyone I know is a millionaire. And before you go "well obviously, rich guy", allow me to explain. I did not grow up with any great amount of privilege. My parents were both teachers. We did not (and I do not) have any of the kinds of connections that the truly rich and powerful do. I went to state school, where all my friends were ordinary middle-class people. It's not like I've ever rubbed elbows with the elite at private school or an exclusive club. 10 years ago my net worth was < $10k, and the same could (to the best of my knowledge) have been said about my entire social circle. I'm now in my mid-30s and closing in on my second million. I just went through my text threads, and of the people I interact with regularly (outside of family), there's only one that's not in the club. This is kinda surprising to me; it's not like it's on purpose. One is a close college friend who (like myself) has worked their way up from nothing and has had a very successful career in (non-tech) business. Another college friend married well. Another 5 are former colleagues who got a big payday in The Acquisition (plus several more that I don't regularly keep up with). 4 out of 5 at the current small-team $DAYJOB got their big payday from a different exit. I don't know exactly where my neighbors stand, but... well, we all own $1mm condos. So I find myself living in a little bubble and I'm not even quite sure how I got here, and it's all the more strange to me that I fit right in. I'm definitely very lucky to have found my own success, but it's straight up weird to me that the most important people in my life over the years--most of whom have similarly unprivileged backgrounds--have all ended up in a similar place. Do I just have a spidey sense for and stick around people who will be successful? Or has The Matrix simply run out of ideas? Anyway, the point in all of this is to say that your mileage will very much vary, and "millionaire"--while still objectively very well-off--isn't quite what it used to be.
mortureb 3y ago
Do you outright own your 600k home? If so you can homestead. I know a family getting by on 5-10k worth of expenses per year.
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  The whole thing was in quotes -- a line of dialogue from a sort of plausible character, who I imagined calling in to Susie Orman or something. But yeah, the idea was that they did own the property outright. It's interesting to know that if you have a bit of reasonably arable land, then you can do that. Those are pretty low expenses.

javagram 3y ago

There are a lot more than 1600 “millionaires” in the sense you’re describing. Moreover, people who just have a expensive house and some 401k savings won’t have 250k or more of back taxes owed. It’s likely a more accurate term for the 1600 targeted by this auditing would be multi-millionaires.

jc_811 3y ago
It’s not about raising anyone’s taxes, it’s about going after those who have back taxes they haven’t paid
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  Yeah, this is the proper emphasis. If people owe $250k in back taxes -- which is a lot -- then by all means they need to pay then. That's only right. But, this should be framed less as "going after millionaires", and more as "going after people who owe a lot of back taxes". So, I'm reacting less to the actual action by the government (which seems fair), and more to the title. "Millionaire" meant one thing when "Monopoly" was released; it means something else today.

postalrat 3y ago

You can retire but choose not to.

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
If my character wanted to retire, I think they'd need to sell the house and move to a low-cost country. Maybe it could work in the US if they're old enough to qualify for social security.
- postalrat 3y ago
  Assuming the house is paid off keep it and live off your $400k. That should last for a very long time. You won't be paying income taxes, can probably get free health care. Wouldn't be hard at all.

flangola7 3y ago

$300k in 401k alone puts you in the upper class of Americans. In 2020, median household (note, not individual) net worth in the United States was $121,411. This includes home equity. $1,000,000 in assets is the 88th percentile, far above "middle class." I'm privileged to do very well for myself, I'm an expert in a very well paying field (far more than my siblings even though they have masters and doctorates), and I do not know any millionaires. These numbers also become significantly worse when filtered to anyone born after 1980.

vuln 3y ago
> These numbers also become significantly worse when filtered to anyone born after 1980. I’m interested in these numbers can you expand? Thank you.
thrwawy_obv_rsn 3y ago
This is fascinating to me, because my experience is almost the opposite: nearly everyone I know is a millionaire. And before you go "well obviously, rich guy", allow me to explain. I did not grow up with any great amount of privilege. My parents were both teachers. We did not (and I do not) have any of the kinds of connections that the truly rich and powerful do. I went to state school, where all my friends were ordinary middle-class people. It's not like I've ever rubbed elbows with the elite at private school or an exclusive club. 10 years ago my net worth was < $10k, and the same could (to the best of my knowledge) have been said about my entire social circle. I'm now in my mid-30s and closing in on my second million. I just went through my text threads, and of the people I interact with regularly (outside of family), there's only one that's not in the club. This is kinda surprising to me; it's not like it's on purpose. One is a close college friend who (like myself) has worked their way up from nothing and has had a very successful career in (non-tech) business. Another college friend married well. Another 5 are former colleagues who got a big payday in The Acquisition (plus several more that I don't regularly keep up with). 4 out of 5 at the current small-team $DAYJOB got their big payday from a different exit. I don't know exactly where my neighbors stand, but... well, we all own $1mm condos. So I find myself living in a little bubble and I'm not even quite sure how I got here, and it's all the more strange to me that I fit right in. I'm definitely very lucky to have found my own success, but it's straight up weird to me that the most important people in my life over the years--most of whom have similarly unprivileged backgrounds--have all ended up in a similar place. Do I just have a spidey sense for and stick around people who will be successful? Or has The Matrix simply run out of ideas? Anyway, the point in all of this is to say that your mileage will very much vary, and "millionaire"--while still objectively very well-off--isn't quite what it used to be.

mortureb 3y ago

Do you outright own your 600k home? If so you can homestead. I know a family getting by on 5-10k worth of expenses per year.

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
The whole thing was in quotes -- a line of dialogue from a sort of plausible character, who I imagined calling in to Susie Orman or something. But yeah, the idea was that they did own the property outright. It's interesting to know that if you have a bit of reasonably arable land, then you can do that. Those are pretty low expenses.