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Note that a lot of deforestation still goes on - it's not that forested areas are being restored. This year, about 4950 square km, or 495,000 hectares of forest

Note that a lot of deforestation still goes on - it's not that forested areas are being restored. This year, about 4950 square km, or 495,000 hectares of forest, will have been cleared. And remember, that Amazonian rain forest can't just be restored by planting a bunch of trees. If restoration is at all possible, it requires carefully planned intervention of decreasing intensity over a prolonged period of time. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_restoration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_restoration for a bit more on this.

holoduke 3y ago
In that wiki i read that it is actually quite doable despite the warnings given prior to some experiments. Forrest is quickly back in about 10 years
- einpoklum 3y ago
  Indeed, it is doable, but it's not trivially doable: "Forest restoration is an inclusive process, which depends on collaboration among a wide range of stakeholders including local communities, government officials, non-government organizations, scientists and funding agencies."
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Sounds more like getting various permissions and money, be actually doing the work.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      We are still a long way from understanding how to do restoration properly. Mostly we make forest gardens that don't look anything like real forests. We have tons to learn, and that's not even counting the bits already known by people who aren't doing the work.
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      A lot of problems are easy to solve with money and permission! Building trains is similarly straightforward if we can secure the money and land use permits.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    In regards to the Amazon, the stakeholders also include organized crime
- npunt 3y ago
  Its doable but not in 10 years. From [1] > They found that soil fertility takes less than 10 years to recover to old-growth forest values. Plant functioning takes less than 25 years, and species diversity takes 60 years. Above-ground biomass and species composition take over 120 years. This is also discounting any of the unique biodiversity in the Amazon, of which there is a lot and may never come back. [1]: https://news.clemson.edu/researchers-if-left-alone-tropical-forests-can-recover-on-their-own-surprisingly-fast/ https://news.clemson.edu/researchers-if-left-alone-tropical-...
  - hanniabu 3y ago
    I wonder if things like species diversity and above-ground biomass and species composition can be achieved faster due to being an annex of a thriving forest. I imagine once plants and soil are established that species will move in from the bordering area fairly quickly.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  A cheaper, lower diversity, forest. 1000 Yo trees can't grow in 10 years
- singingfish 3y ago
  I live in the marginal subtropics in an area with subtropical rainforest. There is a severly degraded historical landslip at the back of my house which we've been working on for 12 years or so. After getting rid of the gross weeds, it only took a couple of years for a bunch of native rainforest species to start popping up, but it's going to be a very long time before what they call "ecosystem function" is approximately back to the way it was before. You can reduce this time in the tropics because the carbon cycle is so fast, but it's still going to take many years of restoration. Appropriate management can speed things up, but only so much - and the techniques used vary in effectiveness.
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
The Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention; why would we need to intervene at all with its regrowth when we’re the reason it’s being cut down? It sounds more likely that we’d only fuck it up further rather than let it heal.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Because rainforest soil is very low in nutrients. Most of the nutrients are locked into the biosphere, which they carted off or set on fire. Temperate forest soil has a lot more capacity for regeneration, but we're 3-4 rounds of clearcutting into most North American forests and we are hearing alarm bells about how there might not be another round if we don't change something.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > The Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention The Supposedly Pristine, Untouched Amazon Rainforest Was Actually Shaped By Humans https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/pristine-untouched-amazonian-rainforest-was-actually-shaped-humans-180962378/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/pristine-untou...
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    If you compare to what extent the native population shaped the Amazon rainforest to the modern abundance in population, urbanization and explotation of the planet, I’d still consider the Amazon as pristine and untouched more or less…
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      Okay? It wasn’t, it was man made and cultivated over thousands of years. That isn’t “untouched”
- edgyquant 3y ago
  > e Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention This is incorrect. The Amazon was cultivated by native communities
Xunjin 3y ago
You have a great point, even with Bolsonaro out, the deforestation is happening in a "slower pace". We need a more assertive course of action, not only policing the areas and arresting the crime organization which profit from it. There are people who lives around Amazon that needs a better way of living, so they don't turn into the forest to commit crimes.

holoduke 3y ago

In that wiki i read that it is actually quite doable despite the warnings given prior to some experiments. Forrest is quickly back in about 10 years

einpoklum 3y ago
Indeed, it is doable, but it's not trivially doable: "Forest restoration is an inclusive process, which depends on collaboration among a wide range of stakeholders including local communities, government officials, non-government organizations, scientists and funding agencies."
- bombcar 3y ago
  Sounds more like getting various permissions and money, be actually doing the work.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    We are still a long way from understanding how to do restoration properly. Mostly we make forest gardens that don't look anything like real forests. We have tons to learn, and that's not even counting the bits already known by people who aren't doing the work.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    A lot of problems are easy to solve with money and permission! Building trains is similarly straightforward if we can secure the money and land use permits.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  In regards to the Amazon, the stakeholders also include organized crime
npunt 3y ago
Its doable but not in 10 years. From [1] > They found that soil fertility takes less than 10 years to recover to old-growth forest values. Plant functioning takes less than 25 years, and species diversity takes 60 years. Above-ground biomass and species composition take over 120 years. This is also discounting any of the unique biodiversity in the Amazon, of which there is a lot and may never come back. [1]: https://news.clemson.edu/researchers-if-left-alone-tropical-forests-can-recover-on-their-own-surprisingly-fast/ https://news.clemson.edu/researchers-if-left-alone-tropical-...
- hanniabu 3y ago
  I wonder if things like species diversity and above-ground biomass and species composition can be achieved faster due to being an annex of a thriving forest. I imagine once plants and soil are established that species will move in from the bordering area fairly quickly.
pvaldes 3y ago
A cheaper, lower diversity, forest. 1000 Yo trees can't grow in 10 years
singingfish 3y ago
I live in the marginal subtropics in an area with subtropical rainforest. There is a severly degraded historical landslip at the back of my house which we've been working on for 12 years or so. After getting rid of the gross weeds, it only took a couple of years for a bunch of native rainforest species to start popping up, but it's going to be a very long time before what they call "ecosystem function" is approximately back to the way it was before. You can reduce this time in the tropics because the carbon cycle is so fast, but it's still going to take many years of restoration. Appropriate management can speed things up, but only so much - and the techniques used vary in effectiveness.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago

The Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention; why would we need to intervene at all with its regrowth when we’re the reason it’s being cut down? It sounds more likely that we’d only fuck it up further rather than let it heal.

hinkley 3y ago
Because rainforest soil is very low in nutrients. Most of the nutrients are locked into the biosphere, which they carted off or set on fire. Temperate forest soil has a lot more capacity for regeneration, but we're 3-4 rounds of clearcutting into most North American forests and we are hearing alarm bells about how there might not be another round if we don't change something.
myshpa 3y ago
> The Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention The Supposedly Pristine, Untouched Amazon Rainforest Was Actually Shaped By Humans https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/pristine-untouched-amazonian-rainforest-was-actually-shaped-humans-180962378/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/pristine-untou...
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  If you compare to what extent the native population shaped the Amazon rainforest to the modern abundance in population, urbanization and explotation of the planet, I’d still consider the Amazon as pristine and untouched more or less…
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    Okay? It wasn’t, it was man made and cultivated over thousands of years. That isn’t “untouched”
edgyquant 3y ago
> e Amazon rainforest was created millennia ago without human intervention This is incorrect. The Amazon was cultivated by native communities

Xunjin 3y ago

You have a great point, even with Bolsonaro out, the deforestation is happening in a "slower pace". We need a more assertive course of action, not only policing the areas and arresting the crime organization which profit from it. There are people who lives around Amazon that needs a better way of living, so they don't turn into the forest to commit crimes.