5 ms·

I'm curious, why do you look at random OS errors in Console to the point you noticed such a thing?

by dmix 3y ago

MichaelZuo 3y ago
When my computer can't even stay up for a full week without crashing, or suffer an inexplicable lag spike, etc., I become more motivated to closely examine everything to see what's causing the crash.
- callalex 3y ago
  Are you plugging/unplugging monitors or other hardware? With macs it’s always that for some reason.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    No, literally just sitting there with no peripherals attached, doing nothing more complex then playing a 4k video and web browsing.
    - astrange 3y ago
      File a bug in Feedback Assistant, if you want.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Okay, so?
        Moomoomoo309 3y ago
        If there's an issue, how are they supposed to know about it? Via osmosis? Even if they should have found it earlier, they didn't, so now what? You should tell them, so they can fix it.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Yes, but what is the point adding to this comment chain? Just saying random things in response to a comment is not the typical HN norm.
        astrange 3y ago
        Well, you're the one with the bug. It'd be weird to reply to someone who isn't experiencing one.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That only matters if the reply has some value, benefits the passing reader, etc. Otherwise the default choice is to not write a comment.
        auxfil 3y ago
        [dead]
    - tambourine_man 3y ago
      It’s probably a hardware issue. My Macs stay up for months and have since Jaguar days. I use them for around 7-8 years, after that hardware starts to glitch or get obsolete. I can count on one hand the number of kernel panics I’ve had on each during this time.
      - nicolas_t 3y ago
        My previous mac would crash every few days inexplicably. I thought it was mac os x becoming less stable. Then I switched to a new mac (the m1) and stability improved significantly so yes that does make sense.
  - stephen_g 3y ago
    My M2 pro gets plugged in to the work monitor most days and then unplugged and taken home and plugged in to my monitor at home - 10 or so screen configuration changes a week... I've never found I've need to restart due to any issues with any regularity with this one or my old 2015 MBP that this replaced. I installed the most recent update five days ago, would have been weeks since the last reboot. From my experience, I'd probably put it down to some software they've installed, or yes, possibly an actual hardware fault with that particular unit.
eptcyka 3y ago
For me, it's a benchmark of a well made system - the lower bandwidth of log output you get when a user machine is idling, the better. I have seen some Android phones produce megabytes of logs just sitting there - you can test this by running `<whatever command outputs logs> | pv`. It's also a good metric to signal an anomaly after a deployment. On my desktop machines, the current culprit for most of the logs is pipewire/alsa, generating multiple lines per second.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  This, plus on MacOS 'faults' specifically indicate events where the computer could not gracefully recover, so some user noticeable thing happened. e.g. when the WiFi adaptor faults and has to restart.
  - astrange 3y ago
    No, it's just the highest severity log and stays archived the longest. (And records a backtrace.) It doesn't mean anything besides that though.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Source? Maybe in some scenarios it shows a fault that is absolutely unnoticeable, but every real world case I've seen was at least theoretically noticeable by the user.
      - nemo 3y ago
        My system's running fine with no noticeable issues. I opened Console to check for faults and after running with logging on I eventually got a couple, all tied to Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to. No performance issues or other user-detectable impacts.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        'Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to.' That doesn't sound like normal behaviour, what's the domain?
_jal 3y ago
Some of us who came up on the ops side routinely check logs. It is both how you spot problems other monitors might miss and partly how you learn how your system works (or doesn't). Especially with MacOS, where the documentation quality ranges from shit to nonexistent and the source is unavailable.
- ls612 3y ago
  Is the log clarity on macOS better than the mess that is the Event Log in windows?
  - newaccount74 3y ago
    "Clarity" is not a word I would use to describe the macOS logs. The number of log entries shown in the console is overwhelming. All the background services constantly log ~100 messages per second, so the log entries you are looking for disappear immediately. You can use the search filters to narrow down messages if you know what you are looking for, but if you don't already have a suspicion where the problem is coming from, then the macOS logs are close to useless.

I'm curious, why do you look at random OS errors in Console to the point you noticed such a thing?

by dmix 3y ago

I'm curious, why do you look at random OS errors in Console to the point you noticed such a thing?

When my computer can't even stay up for a full week without crashing, or suffer an inexplicable lag spike, etc., I become more motivated to closely examine everything to see what's causing the crash.

callalex 3y ago
Are you plugging/unplugging monitors or other hardware? With macs it’s always that for some reason.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  No, literally just sitting there with no peripherals attached, doing nothing more complex then playing a 4k video and web browsing.
  - astrange 3y ago
    File a bug in Feedback Assistant, if you want.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Okay, so?
      - Moomoomoo309 3y ago
        If there's an issue, how are they supposed to know about it? Via osmosis? Even if they should have found it earlier, they didn't, so now what? You should tell them, so they can fix it.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Yes, but what is the point adding to this comment chain? Just saying random things in response to a comment is not the typical HN norm.
        astrange 3y ago
        Well, you're the one with the bug. It'd be weird to reply to someone who isn't experiencing one.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That only matters if the reply has some value, benefits the passing reader, etc. Otherwise the default choice is to not write a comment.
      - auxfil 3y ago
        [dead]
  - tambourine_man 3y ago
    It’s probably a hardware issue. My Macs stay up for months and have since Jaguar days. I use them for around 7-8 years, after that hardware starts to glitch or get obsolete. I can count on one hand the number of kernel panics I’ve had on each during this time.
    - nicolas_t 3y ago
      My previous mac would crash every few days inexplicably. I thought it was mac os x becoming less stable. Then I switched to a new mac (the m1) and stability improved significantly so yes that does make sense.
- stephen_g 3y ago
  My M2 pro gets plugged in to the work monitor most days and then unplugged and taken home and plugged in to my monitor at home - 10 or so screen configuration changes a week... I've never found I've need to restart due to any issues with any regularity with this one or my old 2015 MBP that this replaced. I installed the most recent update five days ago, would have been weeks since the last reboot. From my experience, I'd probably put it down to some software they've installed, or yes, possibly an actual hardware fault with that particular unit.

eptcyka 3y ago

For me, it's a benchmark of a well made system - the lower bandwidth of log output you get when a user machine is idling, the better. I have seen some Android phones produce megabytes of logs just sitting there - you can test this by running `<whatever command outputs logs> | pv`. It's also a good metric to signal an anomaly after a deployment. On my desktop machines, the current culprit for most of the logs is pipewire/alsa, generating multiple lines per second.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
This, plus on MacOS 'faults' specifically indicate events where the computer could not gracefully recover, so some user noticeable thing happened. e.g. when the WiFi adaptor faults and has to restart.
- astrange 3y ago
  No, it's just the highest severity log and stays archived the longest. (And records a backtrace.) It doesn't mean anything besides that though.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Source? Maybe in some scenarios it shows a fault that is absolutely unnoticeable, but every real world case I've seen was at least theoretically noticeable by the user.
    - nemo 3y ago
      My system's running fine with no noticeable issues. I opened Console to check for faults and after running with logging on I eventually got a couple, all tied to Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to. No performance issues or other user-detectable impacts.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        'Safari trying to read a preference from a domain it didn't have permissions to.' That doesn't sound like normal behaviour, what's the domain?

_jal 3y ago

Some of us who came up on the ops side routinely check logs. It is both how you spot problems other monitors might miss and partly how you learn how your system works (or doesn't). Especially with MacOS, where the documentation quality ranges from shit to nonexistent and the source is unavailable.

ls612 3y ago
Is the log clarity on macOS better than the mess that is the Event Log in windows?
- newaccount74 3y ago
  "Clarity" is not a word I would use to describe the macOS logs. The number of log entries shown in the console is overwhelming. All the background services constantly log ~100 messages per second, so the log entries you are looking for disappear immediately. You can use the search filters to narrow down messages if you know what you are looking for, but if you don't already have a suspicion where the problem is coming from, then the macOS logs are close to useless.