4 ms·

I don’t know why this triggers such skepticism in me. Particularly the section on novel entities. But it feels funny, somehow, and I can’t put my finger on it.

ipnon 3y ago
I think the thought, like death, is simply so horrible it defies full consideration. This is why climate activists can seem fanatical, because it has a religious quality. Either you believe “it” will happen in our lifetime, very soon, or it will not happen at all, and it’s this horrifying, apocalyptic nature of the problem that causes this schism. If some of these climate scientists are right in their claims it is the most important thing for these activists to do. I’m sure we can all draw parallels here.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  There’s a lot of religion going on right now. Whatever that is in humans that encourages that, going back to tribal behavior, or survival or whatever, it hasn’t gone away just because formalized religions are weak right now.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    >just because formalized religions are weak right now. Do you mean in average number of active participants? Because everywhere I look, there are headlines full of religious based government decisions being made. So while the number of sheep in the flock might be lower, the power being wielded by the religious leadership is not weak at all
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      You are reading the text from one religion that is upset at another.
commandlinefan 3y ago
> why this triggers such skepticism I know it does for me - because the people who claim to believe in it the most don't actually live their lives as if they actually believed it. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to do whatever I could reasonably do to create cooler summers and less smog, but I've never heard any actual concrete proposal beyond "vote democrat".
- pixl97 3y ago
  In general because the tragedy of the commons is solved by one group pointing a gun at everyone else. Nobody wants that, but at the end of the day that's what we're going to get if we like it or not. The longer we wait, the more people are going to get shot by that gun.
- bottled_poe 3y ago
  Curious!
- vlz 3y ago
  Ok, I will bite. Concrete proposals for anybody regardless of political view: * Eat half the meat you do or less * Don‘t fly unless absolutely necessary * Get on a plan for renewable electrical energy if possible I know, far from everything in this topic is about consumer choices but a lot really is. If you don‘t want the nanny state to fix your problems you can start at your own doorstep.
  - twobitshifter 3y ago
    The flying thing is weird. It’s really that you emit a lot because you traveled so far. It’s more efficient that driving per mile and slightly less efficient than rail (not sure the type) https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-climate-math-of-flying-vs-driving/ https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-climate-... So it should be don’t travel so far and if you have to, take a train and if there’s no train, carpool, but fly rather than drive if you are traveling alone.
    - 3y ago
acqq 3y ago
Instead of speaking of own feeling based on a "section" the rational approach is to read the actual scientific paper dealing only with that topic: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04158 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04158 "Outside the Safe Operating Space of the Planetary Boundary for Novel Entities" Environ. Sci. Technol. 2022, 56, 3, 1510–1521

ipnon 3y ago

I think the thought, like death, is simply so horrible it defies full consideration. This is why climate activists can seem fanatical, because it has a religious quality. Either you believe “it” will happen in our lifetime, very soon, or it will not happen at all, and it’s this horrifying, apocalyptic nature of the problem that causes this schism. If some of these climate scientists are right in their claims it is the most important thing for these activists to do. I’m sure we can all draw parallels here.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
There’s a lot of religion going on right now. Whatever that is in humans that encourages that, going back to tribal behavior, or survival or whatever, it hasn’t gone away just because formalized religions are weak right now.
- dylan604 3y ago
  >just because formalized religions are weak right now. Do you mean in average number of active participants? Because everywhere I look, there are headlines full of religious based government decisions being made. So while the number of sheep in the flock might be lower, the power being wielded by the religious leadership is not weak at all
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    You are reading the text from one religion that is upset at another.

commandlinefan 3y ago

> why this triggers such skepticism I know it does for me - because the people who claim to believe in it the most don't actually live their lives as if they actually believed it. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to do whatever I could reasonably do to create cooler summers and less smog, but I've never heard any actual concrete proposal beyond "vote democrat".

pixl97 3y ago
In general because the tragedy of the commons is solved by one group pointing a gun at everyone else. Nobody wants that, but at the end of the day that's what we're going to get if we like it or not. The longer we wait, the more people are going to get shot by that gun.
bottled_poe 3y ago
Curious!
vlz 3y ago
Ok, I will bite. Concrete proposals for anybody regardless of political view: * Eat half the meat you do or less * Don‘t fly unless absolutely necessary * Get on a plan for renewable electrical energy if possible I know, far from everything in this topic is about consumer choices but a lot really is. If you don‘t want the nanny state to fix your problems you can start at your own doorstep.
- twobitshifter 3y ago
  The flying thing is weird. It’s really that you emit a lot because you traveled so far. It’s more efficient that driving per mile and slightly less efficient than rail (not sure the type) https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-climate-math-of-flying-vs-driving/ https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2015/09/evolving-climate-... So it should be don’t travel so far and if you have to, take a train and if there’s no train, carpool, but fly rather than drive if you are traveling alone.
  - 3y ago

acqq 3y ago

Instead of speaking of own feeling based on a "section" the rational approach is to read the actual scientific paper dealing only with that topic: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04158 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.1c04158 "Outside the Safe Operating Space of the Planetary Boundary for Novel Entities" Environ. Sci. Technol. 2022, 56, 3, 1510–1521