4 ms·

Starlink's ToS prohibit reselling of service, and dividing cost of service among several tenants could be considered to violate that. Most ISPs would require a

by pavon 3y ago

Starlink's ToS prohibit reselling of service, and dividing cost of service among several tenants could be considered to violate that. Most ISPs would require a specific agreement for those sort of things. [1] https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64 https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1020-91087-64, Sections 2.1 & 10

xoa 3y ago
>and dividing cost of service among several tenants could be considered to violate that Show me the caselaw where multiple people splitting a bill would be "reselling", not your head canon make believe if you're going to make such an assertion. ISPs grab enough power already without us needing to invent new things they can do. Reselling as far as I understand means taking a good or service and then selling it again for a profit. I'd really like to see any examples of people at one address being sued for privately deciding to share a bill. Also FWIW I don't think it should be legal for ISPs to prohibit reselling anyway, but I don't dispute they probably can in theory. Splitting a bill though? >Most ISPs would require a specific agreement for those sort of things. I think this sounds like absolute bullshit.
- inemesitaffia 3y ago
  He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. Very few companies monitor these things. But anti resale, anti server provisions are common
  - xoa 3y ago
    >He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. That's not the argument though. The argument is if a few people living together in a building decide to just divide up a bill counts as "reselling". Or one person pays the internet bill and another then pays some other utilities or something, which is legally the same outcome. Ie, $90 month, each pays $30. It's not getting resold as a whole new connection. I really don't agree that, even if it was possible for them to find out, ISPs would go after anyone for that. I've never heard even a hint of it in 30 years, but I don't have a global perspective either. Is this actually a thing in some places? Like 3 friends rooming together somewhere and they're all supposed to buy their own separate WAN not divide it up like other utilities?
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      If you're rooming that's one thing. If you have different addresses for mail delivery and utilities that's another matter. I've seen someone have an ISP refuse. They had to cancel then buy the same exact service over the same exact Fiber from a reseller. Imagine Verizon/MCI refusing to allow you, then you buy service from Zayo over the same Verizon fiber that never got physically removed. It still had limitations but it allowed them to deliver service to an entire neighborhood.
  - phkahler 3y ago
    >> He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. I wasn't thinking of reselling, more like cooperative buying. We'd have co-owners pay for it with their HOA fees and just let everyone in the building use it. Obviously we'd have bandwidth limits per connection, but I'm thinking several wifi APs around the building would do the job and nobody would have to pay an ISP directly anymore.
    - inemesitaffia 3y ago
      That's doable. The HOA doesn't sell internet. Just pays for a Wi-Fi network that happens to reach you. I'd advice two high performance dishes (dishes are known to fail and support is an issue so one on standby while waiting) and a business connection. You'll need a third party router with fair queuing, protocol and service speed shaping etc etc. I'm sure both openwrt and opnsense will do. But check this out https://libreqos.io/ https://libreqos.io/
dotnet00 3y ago
That seems strange for the business version, considering that one of the intended uses is for planes and ships.
- xoa 3y ago
  I'd assume the likes of airlines and cruise companies would all be cutting custom special deals with SpaceX, just like government, large enterprises etc? For SLAs, prioritizatoin and support if nothing else, if you're going to be dropping 6-8 figures with them the public deals are probably no longer the only thing on the menu. We know the DOD at least has custom projects going with SpaceX wrt Starlink. No idea how independent hotels, B&Bs and other small businesses might work with it though. Maybe that just comes down to selective enforcement, SpaceX has it there as one of a few possible clauses to respond with if they feel some entity is being abusive or making too much off of it. Still relatively early days too.

by pavon 3y ago

xoa 3y ago

>and dividing cost of service among several tenants could be considered to violate that Show me the caselaw where multiple people splitting a bill would be "reselling", not your head canon make believe if you're going to make such an assertion. ISPs grab enough power already without us needing to invent new things they can do. Reselling as far as I understand means taking a good or service and then selling it again for a profit. I'd really like to see any examples of people at one address being sued for privately deciding to share a bill. Also FWIW I don't think it should be legal for ISPs to prohibit reselling anyway, but I don't dispute they probably can in theory. Splitting a bill though? >Most ISPs would require a specific agreement for those sort of things. I think this sounds like absolute bullshit.

inemesitaffia 3y ago
He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. Very few companies monitor these things. But anti resale, anti server provisions are common
- xoa 3y ago
  >He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. That's not the argument though. The argument is if a few people living together in a building decide to just divide up a bill counts as "reselling". Or one person pays the internet bill and another then pays some other utilities or something, which is legally the same outcome. Ie, $90 month, each pays $30. It's not getting resold as a whole new connection. I really don't agree that, even if it was possible for them to find out, ISPs would go after anyone for that. I've never heard even a hint of it in 30 years, but I don't have a global perspective either. Is this actually a thing in some places? Like 3 friends rooming together somewhere and they're all supposed to buy their own separate WAN not divide it up like other utilities?
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    If you're rooming that's one thing. If you have different addresses for mail delivery and utilities that's another matter. I've seen someone have an ISP refuse. They had to cancel then buy the same exact service over the same exact Fiber from a reseller. Imagine Verizon/MCI refusing to allow you, then you buy service from Zayo over the same Verizon fiber that never got physically removed. It still had limitations but it allowed them to deliver service to an entire neighborhood.
- phkahler 3y ago
  >> He's right. Usually you need an agreement to resell. I wasn't thinking of reselling, more like cooperative buying. We'd have co-owners pay for it with their HOA fees and just let everyone in the building use it. Obviously we'd have bandwidth limits per connection, but I'm thinking several wifi APs around the building would do the job and nobody would have to pay an ISP directly anymore.
  - inemesitaffia 3y ago
    That's doable. The HOA doesn't sell internet. Just pays for a Wi-Fi network that happens to reach you. I'd advice two high performance dishes (dishes are known to fail and support is an issue so one on standby while waiting) and a business connection. You'll need a third party router with fair queuing, protocol and service speed shaping etc etc. I'm sure both openwrt and opnsense will do. But check this out https://libreqos.io/ https://libreqos.io/

dotnet00 3y ago

That seems strange for the business version, considering that one of the intended uses is for planes and ships.

xoa 3y ago
I'd assume the likes of airlines and cruise companies would all be cutting custom special deals with SpaceX, just like government, large enterprises etc? For SLAs, prioritizatoin and support if nothing else, if you're going to be dropping 6-8 figures with them the public deals are probably no longer the only thing on the menu. We know the DOD at least has custom projects going with SpaceX wrt Starlink. No idea how independent hotels, B&Bs and other small businesses might work with it though. Maybe that just comes down to selective enforcement, SpaceX has it there as one of a few possible clauses to respond with if they feel some entity is being abusive or making too much off of it. Still relatively early days too.