3 ms·

You can still get pseudoephedrine, for example Claritin D, the D for decongestant. It's not by prescription but you have to sign for it at the pharmacy desk, p

by JJMcJ 3y ago

You can still get pseudoephedrine, for example Claritin D, the D for decongestant. It's not by prescription but you have to sign for it at the pharmacy desk, present ID, and I believe it's reported to FDA/DEA and there are limits to how much you can buy per month.

tyingq 3y ago
That's mostly right, but it's not reported to anyone. It came from the "The Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005". If you want to sell pseudoephedrine, your org has to "self certify", keep a logbook purchasers have to sign, require ID, enforce the purchase limits, train employees, etc. But, the logbook doesn't go anywhere unless some investigation or audit prompts that. So, if you're a really determined cooker, you can still go to a bunch of different stores...though you're leaving a paper trail. And some big brands might cross-check and have an org-wide electronic log book. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/index.html https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/index.html
- terribleperson 3y ago
  I was under the impression that there are state-level databases in some states that actually track sales. I am likely incorrect, since a quick google doesn't find anything.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed_OTC_track/Nat_Pseudo_Datab_Interfc.htm https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed...
- alex_young 3y ago
  Doesn't it take a ton of the stuff though? I thought people stealing pallets of it was the only viable way to source enough of it. Seems like just having some inventory control is a sufficient deterrent.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Depends on how much you're wanting to make. Sending smurfs to buy/steal from several locations was a thing for a while. But these cooks were never going to be cartel level secret lab under the commercial laundry location. These were the cook a batch in the trailer out back type of cooks. Jesse before teaming up with Mr White
  - tyingq 3y ago
    Googling around a bit, a typical 20-count box of pseudoephedrine (2.4 grams of "active ingredient") yields roughly 2 grams of "high quality" meth with the shake-and-bake/one-pot method. Not the only ingredient, of course, but close to 1:1 of in/out.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  > So, if you're a really determined cooker, you can still go to a bunch of different stores...though you're leaving a paper trail. Isn't meth a lot easier to come by these days? I have to imagine it's more convenient to cook street meth back into Sudafed to fix your stuffy nose than it is to cook Sudafed into meth to get your fix.
  - NickNameNick 3y ago
    see "A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine From N-Methylamphetamine" https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...
  - pengaru 3y ago
    A "cook house" burned down from me a couple months ago, so there's clearly still domestic cooking going on here (Cali hi-desert around JTNP).
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > I have to imagine it's more convenient to cook street meth back into Sudafed to fix your stuffy nose than it is to cook Sudafed into meth to get your fix. Maybe, but more people are willing to do felonies to get/sell meth than to do the same thing for pseudoephedrine, and its just as illegal to by meth to cook pseudoephedrine as to cook meth from pseudoephedrine.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > That's mostly right, but it's not reported to anyone. IIRC, its reported to a centralized state database in (near) realtime in some states, but in any case it is definitely the case that chain pharmacies generally have their own electronic tracking and flagging to avoid getting nailed the way CVS did [0], which may be shared systems like MethCheck [1], which can also be used by independent pharmacies. So, you’ve got to choose your targets carefully for your “shop at lots of different pharmacies” plan. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/cac/Pressroom/pr2010/148.html https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/cac/Pressroom/pr2010/14... [1] https://totalverify.equifax.com/solutions/methcheck https://totalverify.equifax.com/solutions/methcheck
  - salawat 3y ago
    Can confirm. Snag a copy of the NCPDP Telecom spec, (pricey doc, but is basically the Bible for PBM's) for the gorey details.
- tyingq 3y ago
  >but it's not reported to anyone I'm apparently wrong about that. Seems NPLEX/MethCheck was made a requirement US state by US state over a number of years. So there's no national monitoring, but many (most?) US states require it and give law enforcement access. And like most things set up that way, enforcement and monitoring varies by state/county/etc.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  It very much is reported in a national database. https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed_OTC_track/Nat_Pseudo_Datab_Interfc.htm https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed... Anecdotally, I usually by psuedophredrine at CVS. I bought some in Orlando and tried to buy more at a completely unrelated store in Puerto Rico and was denied.
maxerickson 3y ago
There's probably straight pseudoephedrine available anywhere you can get something with it added. Based on a few comments here, having it behind the counter is apparently pretty much just a waste of time, with meth production having moved to some other synthesis.

by JJMcJ 3y ago

tyingq 3y ago

That's mostly right, but it's not reported to anyone. It came from the "The Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005". If you want to sell pseudoephedrine, your org has to "self certify", keep a logbook purchasers have to sign, require ID, enforce the purchase limits, train employees, etc. But, the logbook doesn't go anywhere unless some investigation or audit prompts that. So, if you're a really determined cooker, you can still go to a bunch of different stores...though you're leaving a paper trail. And some big brands might cross-check and have an org-wide electronic log book. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/index.html https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/meth/index.html

terribleperson 3y ago
I was under the impression that there are state-level databases in some states that actually track sales. I am likely incorrect, since a quick google doesn't find anything.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed_OTC_track/Nat_Pseudo_Datab_Interfc.htm https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed...
alex_young 3y ago
Doesn't it take a ton of the stuff though? I thought people stealing pallets of it was the only viable way to source enough of it. Seems like just having some inventory control is a sufficient deterrent.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Depends on how much you're wanting to make. Sending smurfs to buy/steal from several locations was a thing for a while. But these cooks were never going to be cartel level secret lab under the commercial laundry location. These were the cook a batch in the trailer out back type of cooks. Jesse before teaming up with Mr White
- tyingq 3y ago
  Googling around a bit, a typical 20-count box of pseudoephedrine (2.4 grams of "active ingredient") yields roughly 2 grams of "high quality" meth with the shake-and-bake/one-pot method. Not the only ingredient, of course, but close to 1:1 of in/out.
tshaddox 3y ago
> So, if you're a really determined cooker, you can still go to a bunch of different stores...though you're leaving a paper trail. Isn't meth a lot easier to come by these days? I have to imagine it's more convenient to cook street meth back into Sudafed to fix your stuffy nose than it is to cook Sudafed into meth to get your fix.
- NickNameNick 3y ago
  see "A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine From N-Methylamphetamine" https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pseudoephedrine.pdf https://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume19/v19i3/Pse...
- pengaru 3y ago
  A "cook house" burned down from me a couple months ago, so there's clearly still domestic cooking going on here (Cali hi-desert around JTNP).
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > I have to imagine it's more convenient to cook street meth back into Sudafed to fix your stuffy nose than it is to cook Sudafed into meth to get your fix. Maybe, but more people are willing to do felonies to get/sell meth than to do the same thing for pseudoephedrine, and its just as illegal to by meth to cook pseudoephedrine as to cook meth from pseudoephedrine.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> That's mostly right, but it's not reported to anyone. IIRC, its reported to a centralized state database in (near) realtime in some states, but in any case it is definitely the case that chain pharmacies generally have their own electronic tracking and flagging to avoid getting nailed the way CVS did [0], which may be shared systems like MethCheck [1], which can also be used by independent pharmacies. So, you’ve got to choose your targets carefully for your “shop at lots of different pharmacies” plan. [0] https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/cac/Pressroom/pr2010/148.html https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/cac/Pressroom/pr2010/14... [1] https://totalverify.equifax.com/solutions/methcheck https://totalverify.equifax.com/solutions/methcheck
- salawat 3y ago
  Can confirm. Snag a copy of the NCPDP Telecom spec, (pricey doc, but is basically the Bible for PBM's) for the gorey details.
tyingq 3y ago
>but it's not reported to anyone I'm apparently wrong about that. Seems NPLEX/MethCheck was made a requirement US state by US state over a number of years. So there's no national monitoring, but many (most?) US states require it and give law enforcement access. And like most things set up that way, enforcement and monitoring varies by state/county/etc.
scarface_74 3y ago
It very much is reported in a national database. https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed_OTC_track/Nat_Pseudo_Datab_Interfc.htm https://help.eaglesoa.com/29/en-n-eagle/Pharmacy/Pseudoephed... Anecdotally, I usually by psuedophredrine at CVS. I bought some in Orlando and tried to buy more at a completely unrelated store in Puerto Rico and was denied.

maxerickson 3y ago

There's probably straight pseudoephedrine available anywhere you can get something with it added. Based on a few comments here, having it behind the counter is apparently pretty much just a waste of time, with meth production having moved to some other synthesis.