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their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device. Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) ha

their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device. Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. I don't know about you, i'm the only person i know that has all of those things in my area. the dongle to add an ethernet port to the starlink router, on the other hand, just requires removing one gasket-laden plug for another. I personally use it as strain relief. It's cheaper to replace that dongle than it is to replace the antenna wire, especially the 100' one.

xoa 3y ago
>their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device Um, that's very, very easy to do actually. And indeed the original v1 Starlink cleanly separated the terminal and the router. There was zero need to ever use the included one, you could just treat the terminal as a pure WAN link and that's it. Works extremely well. The v2 was a significant and regrettable downgrade in that respect. There were some reasonable arguments for going away from ethernet since they weren't within the official spec which unfortunately maxes out too low for power [0]. But I wish that at least with the business one they'd simply separated out power and data at least as an option while keeping the terminal self contained. >Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? Or for stuff SFP use fiber, again preterminated is fine. There is no downside to having this be easy for those who need it and the same for those who don't. ---- 0: Though I'll edit to add that I've had people tell me they've powered them just fine with standard 100W PoE++ injectors. It may be that either SpaceX is being generous with their claimed power needs, or the full power is only ever used for serious snow/ice melting with the heaters and is a worse case scenario that much of the planet will never need to think about. Of course that'd just remove even more justification for going proprietary.
- genewitch 3y ago
  >Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? the rj-45 plastic part won't fit in the tiny hole for the cable. I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. I don't know anything about the "old" starlink stuff, i have the rectangular dish. the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish - in which case, the dongle splits out the ethernet from that cable. I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory.
  - xoa 3y ago
    >I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. No, it does not. I'm fairly sure you do not deal with outdoor networking of any kind, or you'd be more familiar with the myriad of solutions to this. The most basic of which are feeding a terminated cable through a tight rubber gasket of some kind, which then fits around the 8P8C port in some way, and is installed facing up. That is typically plenty for outdoor survivability short of full submersion, including driving rain storms, complete coverage in snow etc. Sometimes dielectric grease or the like may be added if it's going to be buried underground too. Like, this is a solved problem, for ages. Cheap PtP devices, outdoor WAPs, outdoor switches, ethernet extenders etc all handle this just fine. All of them use preterminated cables (of course you can make your own). >the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish Of course I meant the cable going to the terminal (dish). I want that in at least a pro/business terminal to have an option to use SFP directly so I can have the data go direct to fiber and power be separate, which as well as allowing far more range to the router has the added advantage of eliminating any surge or induced current considerations. >I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory. I'd politely suggest you perhaps not be quite so confident about things you don't really use or understand.

xoa 3y ago

>their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device Um, that's very, very easy to do actually. And indeed the original v1 Starlink cleanly separated the terminal and the router. There was zero need to ever use the included one, you could just treat the terminal as a pure WAN link and that's it. Works extremely well. The v2 was a significant and regrettable downgrade in that respect. There were some reasonable arguments for going away from ethernet since they weren't within the official spec which unfortunately maxes out too low for power [0]. But I wish that at least with the business one they'd simply separated out power and data at least as an option while keeping the terminal self contained. >Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? Or for stuff SFP use fiber, again preterminated is fine. There is no downside to having this be easy for those who need it and the same for those who don't. ---- 0: Though I'll edit to add that I've had people tell me they've powered them just fine with standard 100W PoE++ injectors. It may be that either SpaceX is being generous with their claimed power needs, or the full power is only ever used for serious snow/ice melting with the heaters and is a worse case scenario that much of the planet will never need to think about. Of course that'd just remove even more justification for going proprietary.

genewitch 3y ago
>Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? the rj-45 plastic part won't fit in the tiny hole for the cable. I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. I don't know anything about the "old" starlink stuff, i have the rectangular dish. the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish - in which case, the dongle splits out the ethernet from that cable. I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory.
- xoa 3y ago
  >I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. No, it does not. I'm fairly sure you do not deal with outdoor networking of any kind, or you'd be more familiar with the myriad of solutions to this. The most basic of which are feeding a terminated cable through a tight rubber gasket of some kind, which then fits around the 8P8C port in some way, and is installed facing up. That is typically plenty for outdoor survivability short of full submersion, including driving rain storms, complete coverage in snow etc. Sometimes dielectric grease or the like may be added if it's going to be buried underground too. Like, this is a solved problem, for ages. Cheap PtP devices, outdoor WAPs, outdoor switches, ethernet extenders etc all handle this just fine. All of them use preterminated cables (of course you can make your own). >the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish Of course I meant the cable going to the terminal (dish). I want that in at least a pro/business terminal to have an option to use SFP directly so I can have the data go direct to fiber and power be separate, which as well as allowing far more range to the router has the added advantage of eliminating any surge or induced current considerations. >I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory. I'd politely suggest you perhaps not be quite so confident about things you don't really use or understand.