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You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressi

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Most of us cannot make these drugs ourselves. To restrict them effectively would certainly curtail their abuse?
- akira2501 3y ago
  The presumption here is that an addict, unable to get their "favorite" drug, will now just stop doing drugs entirely. This is not the case. Drugs can also be stolen, from homes, and from pharmacies, and from ambulances. There are way more vectors than people care to ponder. If you've ever had an addict in your life, you're forced to.
  - salawat 3y ago
    In other news, the bureau of labor reports that the number of unemployed chemists have skyrocketed, and lab equipment manufacturers are reporting a surprise bump in sales. If the mountain will not go to...
- 01100011 3y ago
  Shake-n-bake meth was relatively easy to do for the average methhead. Also, do not underestimate the capabilities of a meth user when they get fixated on something.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Bonus - meth causes among other things incredible focus.
    - paiute 3y ago
      I’ve noticed the comments on hn become more meth curious over the last couple of years… I know the state of CO has been pressuring doctors not to prescribe aderall. Mine got taken away because i only took it when i needed to force myself to really work (a few times a month). Now i use pseudoephedrine.
      - wutwutwat 3y ago
        Doctors handed out oxy like candy and when people couldn’t get scripts they turned to H on the street Teachers push any kid that can’t sit still while being bored for hours to be taken to the doctor for adhd, where they are quickly prescribed amphetamine salts. What do you think they will hit the streets for if their addy script ever gets cut off, or, there’s a shortage of supply? (happened recently). Methamphetamine. Many people use small doses of meth the same way they would take a daily dose of adderall. You can actually be prescribed literally methamphetamine. Not amphetamine, methamphetamine. It’s rare, but it exists.
- MockObject 3y ago
  Hard drugs have been illegal in America for generations, and yet every city has had a junkie community all this time. How much more failure must we entertain?
- fragmede 3y ago
  Vice or someone reports that you can make the new formulation, in a backpack, in a Walmart bathroom, with supplies you haven't even bought yet. Given that, and, well, the Internet, I'm sure making it isn't hard for an addict to learn how to make these drugs, even though it's not common knowledge and you and I can't do it.
- p_j_w 3y ago
  "We just need to wage the war on drugs harder, then it will surely work."
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  It turns out it's not possible to do that. We've been trying since the 1960's.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Longer than that if you count one of the OG drugs - Alcohol
underlipton 3y ago
The "fundamental problem" is the breakdown of community (drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them). People who are comfortable huddling in their cars, homes, and exclusive social clubs, and who would rather spend money on cops rather than social programs, aren't going to like the fix for that.
- ohthehugemanate 3y ago
  Do you have a source for this? > drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture. Alcohol, various drugs, and strongly self destructive behaviors are not recent additions to the human experience. But I don't know any if the numbers or the research on this root cause you mention.
  - post_below 3y ago
    I suspect they're referring to experiments like the famous "Rat Park". There is clearly a strong social and environmental component to addiction susceptibility, at least in rats. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's the fundamental problem, but definitely a major factor.
  - jasonfarnon 3y ago
    "AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture." Surely you would agree that there the proportion of addicts varies by culture and society, that the US for example has a much higher proportion than many poorer nations? I don't know about the first comment's claim that lack of interpersonal relationship is the root cause, but a strong social component looks obvious to me.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Cite? Every nation has an underbelly. Poorer nations, those folks tend to die pretty fast though.
CoastalCoder 3y ago
Until the past few years, I held a similar view. I.e., if we could just dry up the demand for the product, the rest of the system would crumble. Then the whole Sackler / Oxycontin thing came to light. And I saw (well, second hand) a normal person get hooked on pain meds after back surgery, thanks to those assholes. And they're not in prison. That's when I concluded that we lack the collective will to take the necessary steps to fully stop the trade of addictive drugs.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
The problem with decriminalization/legalization is that those are the most abused drugs. However, our drug war is causing Mexico to descend in to anarchy and people are dying by the thousands, or living in total fear of cartels that we trained in the School of the Americas. Thus, I conclude we have to decriminalize and treat our addicts. Enforcement is not working. If we had a sane drug policy 30-40 years ago, Mexico might be a healthy vibrant trading partner.

You can't fight a war against inanimate objects. You can fight a war against drug addicts. You cannot possibly win a war against drug addicts without addressing the fundamental problem.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

Most of us cannot make these drugs ourselves. To restrict them effectively would certainly curtail their abuse?

akira2501 3y ago
The presumption here is that an addict, unable to get their "favorite" drug, will now just stop doing drugs entirely. This is not the case. Drugs can also be stolen, from homes, and from pharmacies, and from ambulances. There are way more vectors than people care to ponder. If you've ever had an addict in your life, you're forced to.
- salawat 3y ago
  In other news, the bureau of labor reports that the number of unemployed chemists have skyrocketed, and lab equipment manufacturers are reporting a surprise bump in sales. If the mountain will not go to...
01100011 3y ago
Shake-n-bake meth was relatively easy to do for the average methhead. Also, do not underestimate the capabilities of a meth user when they get fixated on something.
- lazide 3y ago
  Bonus - meth causes among other things incredible focus.
  - paiute 3y ago
    I’ve noticed the comments on hn become more meth curious over the last couple of years… I know the state of CO has been pressuring doctors not to prescribe aderall. Mine got taken away because i only took it when i needed to force myself to really work (a few times a month). Now i use pseudoephedrine.
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      Doctors handed out oxy like candy and when people couldn’t get scripts they turned to H on the street Teachers push any kid that can’t sit still while being bored for hours to be taken to the doctor for adhd, where they are quickly prescribed amphetamine salts. What do you think they will hit the streets for if their addy script ever gets cut off, or, there’s a shortage of supply? (happened recently). Methamphetamine. Many people use small doses of meth the same way they would take a daily dose of adderall. You can actually be prescribed literally methamphetamine. Not amphetamine, methamphetamine. It’s rare, but it exists.
MockObject 3y ago
Hard drugs have been illegal in America for generations, and yet every city has had a junkie community all this time. How much more failure must we entertain?
fragmede 3y ago
Vice or someone reports that you can make the new formulation, in a backpack, in a Walmart bathroom, with supplies you haven't even bought yet. Given that, and, well, the Internet, I'm sure making it isn't hard for an addict to learn how to make these drugs, even though it's not common knowledge and you and I can't do it.
p_j_w 3y ago
"We just need to wage the war on drugs harder, then it will surely work."
KerrAvon 3y ago
It turns out it's not possible to do that. We've been trying since the 1960's.
- lazide 3y ago
  Longer than that if you count one of the OG drugs - Alcohol

underlipton 3y ago

The "fundamental problem" is the breakdown of community (drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them). People who are comfortable huddling in their cars, homes, and exclusive social clubs, and who would rather spend money on cops rather than social programs, aren't going to like the fix for that.

ohthehugemanate 3y ago
Do you have a source for this? > drug abuse being primarily being a function of the existence or lack of interpersonal involvement and responsibilities that would preclude spending time and money on them AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture. Alcohol, various drugs, and strongly self destructive behaviors are not recent additions to the human experience. But I don't know any if the numbers or the research on this root cause you mention.
- post_below 3y ago
  I suspect they're referring to experiments like the famous "Rat Park". There is clearly a strong social and environmental component to addiction susceptibility, at least in rats. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say it's the fundamental problem, but definitely a major factor.
- jasonfarnon 3y ago
  "AFAIK there have always been addicts in every culture." Surely you would agree that there the proportion of addicts varies by culture and society, that the US for example has a much higher proportion than many poorer nations? I don't know about the first comment's claim that lack of interpersonal relationship is the root cause, but a strong social component looks obvious to me.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Cite? Every nation has an underbelly. Poorer nations, those folks tend to die pretty fast though.

CoastalCoder 3y ago

Until the past few years, I held a similar view. I.e., if we could just dry up the demand for the product, the rest of the system would crumble. Then the whole Sackler / Oxycontin thing came to light. And I saw (well, second hand) a normal person get hooked on pain meds after back surgery, thanks to those assholes. And they're not in prison. That's when I concluded that we lack the collective will to take the necessary steps to fully stop the trade of addictive drugs.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

The problem with decriminalization/legalization is that those are the most abused drugs. However, our drug war is causing Mexico to descend in to anarchy and people are dying by the thousands, or living in total fear of cartels that we trained in the School of the Americas. Thus, I conclude we have to decriminalize and treat our addicts. Enforcement is not working. If we had a sane drug policy 30-40 years ago, Mexico might be a healthy vibrant trading partner.