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Isnt this more a case of the US lagging 1000 years behind like on card payments? All EU laws are publically available? And all laws in Denmark have been publica

by sunbum 3y ago

Isnt this more a case of the US lagging 1000 years behind like on card payments? All EU laws are publically available? And all laws in Denmark have been publically available for who knows how many years?

techsupporter 3y ago
The law itself is broadly available (there are other cases going on about "reported" law which is the compendium put together by private editors), but they reference technical standards that aren't. For example, a hypothetical RCW 94.50.691 in Washington might read "all paving stones sold for use in residential koi pond construction shall conform to American Impervious Surface Standards Body Standard Code 72-67-243". It's that last part that would be copyrighted by a private body and only available for sale at $47,542 per license.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  Yes, in the UK for example, there will be Primary Legislation which is all debated in Parliament and you can go read that online at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ And then there's "Secondary Legislation" some of which are available on that site but others are not. All these require Primary Legislation to enable them, but it means e.g. the Primary Legislation might say something like, "All Circus Clowns are also prohibited from entering a Red Zone as shall be decided from time-to-time by the Minister for Circus Clowns" and now that Minister just gets to make a Red Zone list, parliament says they get to do that and it prohibits Circus Clowns from entering - Parliament doesn't get to vote on updates to the list (but they do get to decide their own Prime Minister, which is why we didn't have Liz Truss for very long) It is not uncommon for either Primary or Secondary Legislation to cite documents which are copyrighted by somebody else. Typically they are available at your public library, but as in the case decided here, that's not exactly convenient when compared to using Google.
jaclaz 3y ago
No, in Europe we have the same problem with ISO norms and likely on some national technical ones, strictly speaking they are not Laws, but they are often cited either in the Laws and/or exposed to the public through labeling. An example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587770
- andylynch 3y ago
  Bang on. Until recently I had several reams of MiFID and its implemting regulations on my desk, they sensibly are very closely aligned with standards, which co-evolve with them- so they are filled with references to ISO20022, 10383, 17442 and so many others. That said, even for our very complex business needing to refer to the standards was very rare. (It still would absolutely have saved time and money, but finding someone to commit actual money to BSI or ANSI membership can sometimes get lost in bureaucracy)
- f1shy 3y ago
  The case with VDE is a good example, where the norms have law force. In contrast DIN makes a specific statement, that the norms are just recommendations (as it should!) and have no law force. Even then, often through "state-of-the-art" obligations, they end up having law force. That is BAD idea.
  - helmchenlord 3y ago
    VDE rules do NOT have law force, as mentioned in my other reply. Please stop repeating this.
emilfihlman 3y ago
Unfortunately not. Laws themselves are usually available for free online, but standards that laws and statues reference are in general not, and interpretation of law from cases is not in general directly available even if the cases themselves are.

by sunbum 3y ago

techsupporter 3y ago

The law itself is broadly available (there are other cases going on about "reported" law which is the compendium put together by private editors), but they reference technical standards that aren't. For example, a hypothetical RCW 94.50.691 in Washington might read "all paving stones sold for use in residential koi pond construction shall conform to American Impervious Surface Standards Body Standard Code 72-67-243". It's that last part that would be copyrighted by a private body and only available for sale at $47,542 per license.

tialaramex 3y ago
Yes, in the UK for example, there will be Primary Legislation which is all debated in Parliament and you can go read that online at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ And then there's "Secondary Legislation" some of which are available on that site but others are not. All these require Primary Legislation to enable them, but it means e.g. the Primary Legislation might say something like, "All Circus Clowns are also prohibited from entering a Red Zone as shall be decided from time-to-time by the Minister for Circus Clowns" and now that Minister just gets to make a Red Zone list, parliament says they get to do that and it prohibits Circus Clowns from entering - Parliament doesn't get to vote on updates to the list (but they do get to decide their own Prime Minister, which is why we didn't have Liz Truss for very long) It is not uncommon for either Primary or Secondary Legislation to cite documents which are copyrighted by somebody else. Typically they are available at your public library, but as in the case decided here, that's not exactly convenient when compared to using Google.

jaclaz 3y ago

No, in Europe we have the same problem with ISO norms and likely on some national technical ones, strictly speaking they are not Laws, but they are often cited either in the Laws and/or exposed to the public through labeling. An example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17587770

andylynch 3y ago
Bang on. Until recently I had several reams of MiFID and its implemting regulations on my desk, they sensibly are very closely aligned with standards, which co-evolve with them- so they are filled with references to ISO20022, 10383, 17442 and so many others. That said, even for our very complex business needing to refer to the standards was very rare. (It still would absolutely have saved time and money, but finding someone to commit actual money to BSI or ANSI membership can sometimes get lost in bureaucracy)
f1shy 3y ago
The case with VDE is a good example, where the norms have law force. In contrast DIN makes a specific statement, that the norms are just recommendations (as it should!) and have no law force. Even then, often through "state-of-the-art" obligations, they end up having law force. That is BAD idea.
- helmchenlord 3y ago
  VDE rules do NOT have law force, as mentioned in my other reply. Please stop repeating this.

emilfihlman 3y ago

Unfortunately not. Laws themselves are usually available for free online, but standards that laws and statues reference are in general not, and interpretation of law from cases is not in general directly available even if the cases themselves are.