5 ms·

I'm surprised they haven't added an ethernet port back to their router.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I was very surprised when our starlink showed up and I had to buy an Ethernet adapter! Extremely weird that they don’t just have the port on the router.
- genewitch 3y ago
  Is it really that surprising? there's two hardware pieces, both are rated for outdoor (permanent) use. I don't see a way to guarantee that sort of thing with a user serviceable ethernet port except the way they did it. I actually debated buying the longer dish wire vs leaving the thing outside, and made the decision to buy the longer cable and the ethernet port adapter, because i live in an area where sustained power outages longer than 24 hours will allow moisture ingress into any device left outside, and the higher the IP rating, the more likely this is to damage said device.
  - zajio1am 3y ago
    User serviceable ethernet port on outdoor antennas is standard on wifi devices. Just put it behind movable cover and direct it down, partially recessed in plastic case (so it is protected from flowing water, rain and snow). See e.g. https://www.wifihw.cz/img.asp?attid=4754 https://www.wifihw.cz/img.asp?attid=4754
    - genewitch 3y ago
      that sort of thing works great if you can guarantee power to the device, 24/7. At least where i am. the moisture in the air at night will be pulled into the device, through whatever seals exist, if the device is unpowered. Then, during the day when the pressure inside the device increases (due to the seals), the extra air is released, but the condensation remains. here, it takes literally 2 nights without power to kill stuff like Wyze cameras, Solar powered spotlights, etc. and those don't have a half inch rectangular hole allowing ingress. I'm not saying that stuff like what you're talking about doesn't exist. I've installed relays that had "downward facing rj-45 behind a panel", on top of buildings... but the building had generator backup that we were shareholders in, as well as our own UPS systems that kept the POE enabled in the event the generator failed, but shut off all "data" to the radios, leaving them using idle power. If there were no generator, we'd have used a different type of radio on the roofs.
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    Well the entire rest of my system is a Unifi mesh Wi-Fi system with two Ethernet ports on every outdoor rated device I am using so yes I found it very surprising.
drak0n1c 3y ago
The current Wifi 5 one has an ethernet adapter they sell separately: https://www.starlink.com/specifications https://www.starlink.com/specifications The upcoming Wifi 6 router will likely have ethernet ports built-in given the FCC spec: https://www.pcmag.com/news/spacex-preps-wi-fi-6-starlink-router https://www.pcmag.com/news/spacex-preps-wi-fi-6-starlink-rou...
tuatoru 3y ago
Well, it's a few more cents on the bill of materials and some PCB real estate, and constrains the enclosure form factor. Ethernet ports have a transformer (or some other kind of electrical isolation) inside as well, from memory. Making it an add-on means you can spend more on higher quality electrical protection so it actually keeps the rest of the terminal safe, for those who need wires. And you can replace the add-on when mechanical overstress (aka tripping over the ethernet cable) is applied.
bitbckt 3y ago
The extra Ethernet dongle is a silly extra expense in my view - I don't want their WiFi, I use the base station as a bridge between physical interfaces the same as a cable modem. I'm looking forward to the return of the port, too.
genewitch 3y ago
their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device. Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. I don't know about you, i'm the only person i know that has all of those things in my area. the dongle to add an ethernet port to the starlink router, on the other hand, just requires removing one gasket-laden plug for another. I personally use it as strain relief. It's cheaper to replace that dongle than it is to replace the antenna wire, especially the 100' one.
- xoa 3y ago
  >their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device Um, that's very, very easy to do actually. And indeed the original v1 Starlink cleanly separated the terminal and the router. There was zero need to ever use the included one, you could just treat the terminal as a pure WAN link and that's it. Works extremely well. The v2 was a significant and regrettable downgrade in that respect. There were some reasonable arguments for going away from ethernet since they weren't within the official spec which unfortunately maxes out too low for power [0]. But I wish that at least with the business one they'd simply separated out power and data at least as an option while keeping the terminal self contained. >Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? Or for stuff SFP use fiber, again preterminated is fine. There is no downside to having this be easy for those who need it and the same for those who don't. ---- 0: Though I'll edit to add that I've had people tell me they've powered them just fine with standard 100W PoE++ injectors. It may be that either SpaceX is being generous with their claimed power needs, or the full power is only ever used for serious snow/ice melting with the heaters and is a worse case scenario that much of the planet will never need to think about. Of course that'd just remove even more justification for going proprietary.
  - genewitch 3y ago
    >Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? the rj-45 plastic part won't fit in the tiny hole for the cable. I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. I don't know anything about the "old" starlink stuff, i have the rectangular dish. the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish - in which case, the dongle splits out the ethernet from that cable. I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory.
KirillPanov 3y ago
The $2500 "high performance" (square, not rectangle) dish is a direct ethernet connection. They still use a proprietary connector (mainly for weatherproofing and durability reasons) and supply the power on different pairs than standard PoE (probably so people don't try to use their own PoE injector). But it's: dish -> PoE injector -> rj45 ethernet No wifi anywhere. Also no router, unless you count the dish itself. Each "->" is a cable. The dish->injector cable has proprietary connectors on both ends; the injector->rj45 cable has a proprietary connector on one end and an ordinary rj45 plug on the other end. Apparently this is done because the proprietary connectors are weatherproof and rj45 isn't, and people expect to be able to put the PoE injector outdoors. The proprietary connectors on the high performance dish are slightly different from the ones on the cheap rectangular dish, so you can't just use the proprietary->rj45 cable from a high performance dish with the cheap dish. Honestly I with Starlink would've just coughed up the few extra bucks it costs to use standard rj45 with a weatherproof shroud.

I was very surprised when our starlink showed up and I had to buy an Ethernet adapter! Extremely weird that they don’t just have the port on the router.

genewitch 3y ago
Is it really that surprising? there's two hardware pieces, both are rated for outdoor (permanent) use. I don't see a way to guarantee that sort of thing with a user serviceable ethernet port except the way they did it. I actually debated buying the longer dish wire vs leaving the thing outside, and made the decision to buy the longer cable and the ethernet port adapter, because i live in an area where sustained power outages longer than 24 hours will allow moisture ingress into any device left outside, and the higher the IP rating, the more likely this is to damage said device.
- zajio1am 3y ago
  User serviceable ethernet port on outdoor antennas is standard on wifi devices. Just put it behind movable cover and direct it down, partially recessed in plastic case (so it is protected from flowing water, rain and snow). See e.g. https://www.wifihw.cz/img.asp?attid=4754 https://www.wifihw.cz/img.asp?attid=4754
  - genewitch 3y ago
    that sort of thing works great if you can guarantee power to the device, 24/7. At least where i am. the moisture in the air at night will be pulled into the device, through whatever seals exist, if the device is unpowered. Then, during the day when the pressure inside the device increases (due to the seals), the extra air is released, but the condensation remains. here, it takes literally 2 nights without power to kill stuff like Wyze cameras, Solar powered spotlights, etc. and those don't have a half inch rectangular hole allowing ingress. I'm not saying that stuff like what you're talking about doesn't exist. I've installed relays that had "downward facing rj-45 behind a panel", on top of buildings... but the building had generator backup that we were shareholders in, as well as our own UPS systems that kept the POE enabled in the event the generator failed, but shut off all "data" to the radios, leaving them using idle power. If there were no generator, we'd have used a different type of radio on the roofs.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Well the entire rest of my system is a Unifi mesh Wi-Fi system with two Ethernet ports on every outdoor rated device I am using so yes I found it very surprising.

drak0n1c 3y ago

The current Wifi 5 one has an ethernet adapter they sell separately: https://www.starlink.com/specifications https://www.starlink.com/specifications The upcoming Wifi 6 router will likely have ethernet ports built-in given the FCC spec: https://www.pcmag.com/news/spacex-preps-wi-fi-6-starlink-router https://www.pcmag.com/news/spacex-preps-wi-fi-6-starlink-rou...

tuatoru 3y ago

Well, it's a few more cents on the bill of materials and some PCB real estate, and constrains the enclosure form factor. Ethernet ports have a transformer (or some other kind of electrical isolation) inside as well, from memory. Making it an add-on means you can spend more on higher quality electrical protection so it actually keeps the rest of the terminal safe, for those who need wires. And you can replace the add-on when mechanical overstress (aka tripping over the ethernet cable) is applied.

bitbckt 3y ago

The extra Ethernet dongle is a silly extra expense in my view - I don't want their WiFi, I use the base station as a bridge between physical interfaces the same as a cable modem. I'm looking forward to the return of the port, too.

genewitch 3y ago

their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device. Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. I don't know about you, i'm the only person i know that has all of those things in my area. the dongle to add an ethernet port to the starlink router, on the other hand, just requires removing one gasket-laden plug for another. I personally use it as strain relief. It's cheaper to replace that dongle than it is to replace the antenna wire, especially the 100' one.

xoa 3y ago
>their router can be submitted to the elements, outdoors. good luck doing that with an rj-45 on the device Um, that's very, very easy to do actually. And indeed the original v1 Starlink cleanly separated the terminal and the router. There was zero need to ever use the included one, you could just treat the terminal as a pure WAN link and that's it. Works extremely well. The v2 was a significant and regrettable downgrade in that respect. There were some reasonable arguments for going away from ethernet since they weren't within the official spec which unfortunately maxes out too low for power [0]. But I wish that at least with the business one they'd simply separated out power and data at least as an option while keeping the terminal self contained. >Now, CPE wireless stuff (like at&t fixed wireless) has ethernet ports, but you have to have bulk cat6 wire, the rj-45 connectors, and a crimper to "service" it. Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? Or for stuff SFP use fiber, again preterminated is fine. There is no downside to having this be easy for those who need it and the same for those who don't. ---- 0: Though I'll edit to add that I've had people tell me they've powered them just fine with standard 100W PoE++ injectors. It may be that either SpaceX is being generous with their claimed power needs, or the full power is only ever used for serious snow/ice melting with the heaters and is a worse case scenario that much of the planet will never need to think about. Of course that'd just remove even more justification for going proprietary.
- genewitch 3y ago
  >Or, you know, just get a preterminated shielded patch cable? the rj-45 plastic part won't fit in the tiny hole for the cable. I'm unsure if you understood what i was talking about. outdoor ethernet requires a crimper, otherwise you can't guarantee water-resistance. I don't know anything about the "old" starlink stuff, i have the rectangular dish. the power and data are separate - unless you mean the cable going to the dish - in which case, the dongle splits out the ethernet from that cable. I haven't tried to "dumb WAN" the starlink because it's outside the scope of my use. I don't even see the point of getting rid of the NAT at that spot, because it's still NAT upstream, and you're gunna need NAT on your network anyway, probably. I had this issue with 4g/LTE CPE, too. Once something goes CGNAT, there's no reason to use your own equipment, as it's getting a private address anyhow, and now you're approaching quadruple NAT territory.

KirillPanov 3y ago

The $2500 "high performance" (square, not rectangle) dish is a direct ethernet connection. They still use a proprietary connector (mainly for weatherproofing and durability reasons) and supply the power on different pairs than standard PoE (probably so people don't try to use their own PoE injector). But it's: dish -> PoE injector -> rj45 ethernet No wifi anywhere. Also no router, unless you count the dish itself. Each "->" is a cable. The dish->injector cable has proprietary connectors on both ends; the injector->rj45 cable has a proprietary connector on one end and an ordinary rj45 plug on the other end. Apparently this is done because the proprietary connectors are weatherproof and rj45 isn't, and people expect to be able to put the PoE injector outdoors. The proprietary connectors on the high performance dish are slightly different from the ones on the cheap rectangular dish, so you can't just use the proprietary->rj45 cable from a high performance dish with the cheap dish. Honestly I with Starlink would've just coughed up the few extra bucks it costs to use standard rj45 with a weatherproof shroud.