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If the US declares war, then it is justified to use civilian resources. Outside of that it is too ripe for abuse. It just makes it easier to slip into forever "

If the US declares war, then it is justified to use civilian resources. Outside of that it is too ripe for abuse. It just makes it easier to slip into forever "wars" and never think about the tradeoffs.

mdeeks 3y ago
Probably at this point this is the closest the US can get to declaring war with another major nuclear power. Declaring actual war would probably escalate to a horrific end with nuclear weapons. The US is explicitly and very loudly supplying a massive amount of weapons to Ukraine for the purpose of killing Russian soldiers and equipment. It feels like a technicality that our troops aren't the ones pulling the triggers. I'm not weighing in on either side of this argument since I'm undecided, but I think this is what war looks like between nuclear nations.
salawat 3y ago
IBM famously equipped the Nazi's to be able to operate their concentration camp infrastructure with ruthless, industrial-scale efficiency. Chemical manufacturers knowingly shipped Zyklon B to the Nazi's and to concentration camps as direct buyers as well. Unfortunately, my new acquaintence, you are laboring under the presumption that militaries/governments build, manufacture, and operate "government owned infra" to do what they do that can be cleanly seperated from "civillian infra". This is not the case. It's why arguments that "private companies working on behalf of the government to do things the government wouldn't be able to do" should be seen as what they are. A bunch of bullocks. The Government is Us, and We are the Government. "It's a private company" style arguments only hold validity to specifically if you put on blinders to the fact a "Company" is a construct granted legitimacy by it's host State. Break the rules, or make things overly problematic to your host state, and watch how fast the landscape changes.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  The government literally has bombed its own citizens because they dared to rise up against them. Look at the MOVE protests in Philly. The government is not “us”. That’s a fairytale they tell you in AP government classes. If the government “was us”, we’d have actually addressed many of the problems plaguing us today. Our input to the government is picking from a candidate from a bunch of actual fascists and proto fascists. Whenever they don’t like our pick, the very rare time someone has been outside of that choice pool, a bunch of unheard of systems come into place to nullify our choice. Princeton did a multi year study into this: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
  - salawat 3y ago
    Doesn't obviate my point. Even if the Government bombs "us"... Who made the bombs? Brewed the explosives? Manufactured the fasteners? Built the loading equipment? Staffed the Armed Forces? We did. We do. We will continue to. Collective action on our part is indistinguishable from Government. It just so happens when you try to spawn a new one that doesn't have enough popular support, the response by the incumbent is to crush, delegitimize, and exemplify the consequences of so doing through the treatments applied to the uprisers. If you would oust the king, you damn well better be fully committed, and better well win. Because for them, to let you succeed or exist is a matter of existential importance.

mdeeks 3y ago

Probably at this point this is the closest the US can get to declaring war with another major nuclear power. Declaring actual war would probably escalate to a horrific end with nuclear weapons. The US is explicitly and very loudly supplying a massive amount of weapons to Ukraine for the purpose of killing Russian soldiers and equipment. It feels like a technicality that our troops aren't the ones pulling the triggers. I'm not weighing in on either side of this argument since I'm undecided, but I think this is what war looks like between nuclear nations.

salawat 3y ago

IBM famously equipped the Nazi's to be able to operate their concentration camp infrastructure with ruthless, industrial-scale efficiency. Chemical manufacturers knowingly shipped Zyklon B to the Nazi's and to concentration camps as direct buyers as well. Unfortunately, my new acquaintence, you are laboring under the presumption that militaries/governments build, manufacture, and operate "government owned infra" to do what they do that can be cleanly seperated from "civillian infra". This is not the case. It's why arguments that "private companies working on behalf of the government to do things the government wouldn't be able to do" should be seen as what they are. A bunch of bullocks. The Government is Us, and We are the Government. "It's a private company" style arguments only hold validity to specifically if you put on blinders to the fact a "Company" is a construct granted legitimacy by it's host State. Break the rules, or make things overly problematic to your host state, and watch how fast the landscape changes.

aaomidi 3y ago
The government literally has bombed its own citizens because they dared to rise up against them. Look at the MOVE protests in Philly. The government is not “us”. That’s a fairytale they tell you in AP government classes. If the government “was us”, we’d have actually addressed many of the problems plaguing us today. Our input to the government is picking from a candidate from a bunch of actual fascists and proto fascists. Whenever they don’t like our pick, the very rare time someone has been outside of that choice pool, a bunch of unheard of systems come into place to nullify our choice. Princeton did a multi year study into this: https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746 https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
- salawat 3y ago
  Doesn't obviate my point. Even if the Government bombs "us"... Who made the bombs? Brewed the explosives? Manufactured the fasteners? Built the loading equipment? Staffed the Armed Forces? We did. We do. We will continue to. Collective action on our part is indistinguishable from Government. It just so happens when you try to spawn a new one that doesn't have enough popular support, the response by the incumbent is to crush, delegitimize, and exemplify the consequences of so doing through the treatments applied to the uprisers. If you would oust the king, you damn well better be fully committed, and better well win. Because for them, to let you succeed or exist is a matter of existential importance.