3 ms·

> Surely whatever money these guys spend buying these zero-days, Apple is rich enough to increase their bounties large enough to attract them to right side inst

by stef25 3y ago

> Surely whatever money these guys spend buying these zero-days, Apple is rich enough to increase their bounties large enough to attract them to right side instead? TL;DR, Apple probably doesn't care enough You're in a very exclusive club if you're targeted by NSO (ie. very few people are victims) and most of the general public probably doesn't understand or care enough to get their pitch forks out. Personally if I was anywhere near being a possible NSO target I'd dump all my devices or at least have them fully airgapped, the only way you'll win that fight.

devmor 3y ago
>Personally if I was anywhere near being a possible NSO target I'd dump all my devices or at least have them fully airgapped, the only way you'll win that fight. You still wouldn't win that fight without applying those rules to everyone you come in contact with. And even then, the absence of such data could create a pattern enough to identify parts of your life if they have enough data from people that are not around you. Escaping surveillance from bad actors is essentially no longer a winnable fight. you can only do your best to mitigate it.
zozbot234 3y ago
> You're in a very exclusive club if you're targeted by NSO (ie. very few people are victims) That's a dangerous assumption. We only know about the victims who are clueful enough about OPSEC to even be informed about the issue, let alone find out about an attack.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  We do know it’s somewhat expensive to target people.
- numpad0 3y ago
  It's hard to make yourself a target to highly qualified subgroups of intelligence people, for reasons rightful or not. Simply committing or conspiring for crimes with e.g. extremist terrorist groups won't do that(not recommending to do so, obviously).
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    Journalists and political activists seem to manage this feat with comparative ease (as shown by OP, but not only) without even doing anything illegal. There's a meaningful question about who else might end up being targeted, that we wouldn't necessarily know about all that easily.
    - zanellato19 3y ago
      How do you define illegal here? Because a lot of journalists do illegal stuff from the POV of their country. What is the difference between a journalist/political activist/terrorist? Violence?
Terretta 3y ago
> TL;DR, Apple probably doesn't care enough You're in a very exclusive club if you're targeted by NSO (ie. very few people are victims) and most of the general public probably doesn't understand or care enough to get their pitch forks out. And yet: (a) Lockdown Mode cost money to develop and will cost support time from casuals turning it when they shouldn't but Apple did it anyway, and (b) the journalists only know this happened because Apple told them proactively. Sounds like they care at least a little.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  Someone also cared about programming Minesweeper in Windows. That doesn't mean Microsoft as a company care even a miniscule amount about it. Someone at Apple cared more than not at all is as true.

by stef25 3y ago

devmor 3y ago

>Personally if I was anywhere near being a possible NSO target I'd dump all my devices or at least have them fully airgapped, the only way you'll win that fight. You still wouldn't win that fight without applying those rules to everyone you come in contact with. And even then, the absence of such data could create a pattern enough to identify parts of your life if they have enough data from people that are not around you. Escaping surveillance from bad actors is essentially no longer a winnable fight. you can only do your best to mitigate it.

zozbot234 3y ago

> You're in a very exclusive club if you're targeted by NSO (ie. very few people are victims) That's a dangerous assumption. We only know about the victims who are clueful enough about OPSEC to even be informed about the issue, let alone find out about an attack.

saagarjha 3y ago
We do know it’s somewhat expensive to target people.
numpad0 3y ago
It's hard to make yourself a target to highly qualified subgroups of intelligence people, for reasons rightful or not. Simply committing or conspiring for crimes with e.g. extremist terrorist groups won't do that(not recommending to do so, obviously).
- zozbot234 3y ago
  Journalists and political activists seem to manage this feat with comparative ease (as shown by OP, but not only) without even doing anything illegal. There's a meaningful question about who else might end up being targeted, that we wouldn't necessarily know about all that easily.
  - zanellato19 3y ago
    How do you define illegal here? Because a lot of journalists do illegal stuff from the POV of their country. What is the difference between a journalist/political activist/terrorist? Violence?

Terretta 3y ago

> TL;DR, Apple probably doesn't care enough You're in a very exclusive club if you're targeted by NSO (ie. very few people are victims) and most of the general public probably doesn't understand or care enough to get their pitch forks out. And yet: (a) Lockdown Mode cost money to develop and will cost support time from casuals turning it when they shouldn't but Apple did it anyway, and (b) the journalists only know this happened because Apple told them proactively. Sounds like they care at least a little.

Dah00n 3y ago
Someone also cared about programming Minesweeper in Windows. That doesn't mean Microsoft as a company care even a miniscule amount about it. Someone at Apple cared more than not at all is as true.