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I don't see the same outrage for hundreds of privileged telecoms providers that also see at a higher and greater level of detail the same thing Elon was looking

I don't see the same outrage for hundreds of privileged telecoms providers that also see at a higher and greater level of detail the same thing Elon was looking at, even lower level sysadmins. He's in charge of Starlink and it doesn't make any data privacy claims to prevent him from even intercepting data if he wanted to.

rsynnott 3y ago
If the CEO of Vodafone or something was saying that they could see military operations in the metadata, and also talking about their chats with Putin, _eyebrows would be raised_. (For a number of reasons; I'd be astonished if the CEO of Vodafone or similar has casual access to just look at call metadata for fun, plus also, yeah, the Implication).
PepperdineG 3y ago
He has to tell the Ukrainians that he's using their data for chats with Putin: "We don’t knowingly sell your personal information, but we still have to tell you what we collect from you and how we use it." https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1000-41799-67?regionCode=Global https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1000-41799-67?r... Location data is specifically covered and Musk was not using the location data for 'goods and services' but instead in violation of privacy rights was using this information for geopolitics instead: "Location Data (not precise geolocation), which includes your general location in order to provide you with the appropriate goods and services."
nullindividual 3y ago
Outrage doesn’t need to be equal. There is zero need for plebs to be defending a mentally ill billionaire on HN or anywhere else.
- decremental 3y ago
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salawat 3y ago
The fact you haven't heard that outrage simply suggests that you haven't been a network operator before. We have an RFC, in fact, that addresses this very point. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1925 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1925 Note truth number 4: > (4) Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network. Most people have not ever wrestled with operating a network. To get outraged about the exploitation of user activity/metadata and violation of end user trust perpetrated by today's network operators, you have to have wrestled with having at least tried to operate or build out one yourself. Only once you have (and it doesn't take many) multiple users completely dependent on you as a single point of failure or as a vector for intrusion into their intimate affairs, will you truly appreciate the burning white anger the more ethical of us feel at the behavior of the largest network operators. In fact, policymakers and law enforcement have all but weaponized that fact. Usually couching any further abrogation or unraveling of end user expectation of privacy under the guise of "keeping you safe" or "protecting the children" (which a vast majority experience first hand), without at the same time pointing out that "oh, hey, this means we basically get to intrude on all activity you conduct over a network". Which nowadays is "all activity you conduct with someone else that doesn't involve meeting face to face" Which is a lot. Think about that long and hard.

rsynnott 3y ago

If the CEO of Vodafone or something was saying that they could see military operations in the metadata, and also talking about their chats with Putin, _eyebrows would be raised_. (For a number of reasons; I'd be astonished if the CEO of Vodafone or similar has casual access to just look at call metadata for fun, plus also, yeah, the Implication).

PepperdineG 3y ago

He has to tell the Ukrainians that he's using their data for chats with Putin: "We don’t knowingly sell your personal information, but we still have to tell you what we collect from you and how we use it." https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1000-41799-67?regionCode=Global https://www.starlink.com/legal/documents/DOC-1000-41799-67?r... Location data is specifically covered and Musk was not using the location data for 'goods and services' but instead in violation of privacy rights was using this information for geopolitics instead: "Location Data (not precise geolocation), which includes your general location in order to provide you with the appropriate goods and services."

nullindividual 3y ago

Outrage doesn’t need to be equal. There is zero need for plebs to be defending a mentally ill billionaire on HN or anywhere else.

decremental 3y ago
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salawat 3y ago

The fact you haven't heard that outrage simply suggests that you haven't been a network operator before. We have an RFC, in fact, that addresses this very point. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1925 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1925 Note truth number 4: > (4) Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network. Most people have not ever wrestled with operating a network. To get outraged about the exploitation of user activity/metadata and violation of end user trust perpetrated by today's network operators, you have to have wrestled with having at least tried to operate or build out one yourself. Only once you have (and it doesn't take many) multiple users completely dependent on you as a single point of failure or as a vector for intrusion into their intimate affairs, will you truly appreciate the burning white anger the more ethical of us feel at the behavior of the largest network operators. In fact, policymakers and law enforcement have all but weaponized that fact. Usually couching any further abrogation or unraveling of end user expectation of privacy under the guise of "keeping you safe" or "protecting the children" (which a vast majority experience first hand), without at the same time pointing out that "oh, hey, this means we basically get to intrude on all activity you conduct over a network". Which nowadays is "all activity you conduct with someone else that doesn't involve meeting face to face" Which is a lot. Think about that long and hard.