4 ms·

This is very nice, but most of that $10k probably pays for certification that you won't get for DIY. Great for hobbyist, but you couldn't sell it for $9500 prof

This is very nice, but most of that $10k probably pays for certification that you won't get for DIY. Great for hobbyist, but you couldn't sell it for $9500 profit.

version_five 3y ago
My first thought as well. People tend to misunderstand why things cost what they do, for stuff like this it isn't the raw components.
MostlyStable 3y ago
Possibly, but he also describes pretty cheap and easy calibration methods. It's possible that most of the cost of the commercial options is the fact that these are extremely low-volume devices and the overhead of a business with low-volume sales is quite high. You might be paying less for calibration and more for all the things a business needs to do/have that a lone DIYer doesn't. Not to mention the fact that a lot of researchers are buying thing with grant money, and so can be, in some cases, somewhat price insensitive. I don't doubt that the commercial one is pre-calibrated and certified. But I would be quite surprised if that certification/calibration _actually_ cost ~$9000.
- progbits 3y ago
  Sure I'm not saying that. If you give away the R&D for free and don't seek profit you can build it much cheaper. But self-calibrating is still something else. Unless I pay some lab with traceable calibration to do it for me I can't use the results to certify other equipment for example. I think it's more like insurance, sure the unit cost is low but you pay extra so in case the lab screws up they pay for the mess.
  - MostlyStable 3y ago
    That's fair, but I think a lot of people other than "DIY hobbyists" don't have a need for traceable, liability responsible, validation chains.
jacquesm 3y ago
So what? If you need it, now you can build it. As a hobbyist you don't need certified gear, you need gear.
MrBuddyCasino 3y ago
The point wasn't "you can get rich selling this", but "you can save $$$ building this yourself as a hobbyist".
- progbits 3y ago
  Absolutely, you are correct.
ortusdux 3y ago
I wonder what 3rd party certification would cost. Industries that use sensors like this frequently require annual recertification, so there are typically multiple testing houses and competitive prices.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There is a huge difference between calibration and certification. Calibration means that your instrument gives you absolute rather than relative output. Certification means that your instrument is precise enough to be used for specific procedures. Calibration can be done in house, certification is usually the domain of some certification institution and can be extremely expensive depending on the kind of gear.
- HerculePoirot 3y ago
  DIY recertification obviously. What's the lowest cost for the hobbyist ? A high-end, stable, double-wall PH-meter or finding a cheap way to build single-wall PH meters ? https://www.instructables.com/cheap-DIY-electronic-pH-meter/ https://www.instructables.com/cheap-DIY-electronic-pH-meter/ You explore the solution-space, and suddenly, out of nowhere it changes your perspective on another aspect, and you realize you may not need a spectrometer at all to measure ion concentartion in aeroponic nutrient solutions. http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~jsduncan/courses../2011_Fall/InstrumentalAnalysis/Labs/9-IonSelectiveElectrodes.pdf http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~jsduncan/courses../2011_Fall/In...
CamperBob2 3y ago
If you're using it in a lab, you can calibrate and verify this sort of instrument yourself most of the time. Wavelength is trivial to calibrate. Absolute amplitude not so much, but you usually don't care that much about absolute amplitude. Response flatness across the spectrum may or may not be a concern.
s0rce 3y ago
I'm not sure about certification but there is a lot of overhead in designing, producing, selling and servicing products. This is basically a prototype. It will probably work for a while but will be difficult to maintain if something goes wrong and the software won't be very polished. There are a lot of non-BOM costs that go into selling a commercial spectrometer. This is great if you want to DIY one but even a single sensor based visible light spectrometer with cheap parts can't be bought for close to the sum of its parts.
w10-1 3y ago
DIY is not just for hobbyists. Companies face the build-or-buy question every day. This article demonstrates that you can build and validate your build with the knowledge and skills expected of most principal investigators. If I were a lab director, I would want my people to be able to consider building when it makes sense, particularly since we can then integrate systems and tailor validation to our requirements. That's the stuff of proprietary IP and career advancement.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

This is very nice, but most of that $10k probably pays for certification that you won't get for DIY. Great for hobbyist, but you couldn't sell it for $9500 profit.

version_five 3y ago

My first thought as well. People tend to misunderstand why things cost what they do, for stuff like this it isn't the raw components.

MostlyStable 3y ago

Possibly, but he also describes pretty cheap and easy calibration methods. It's possible that most of the cost of the commercial options is the fact that these are extremely low-volume devices and the overhead of a business with low-volume sales is quite high. You might be paying less for calibration and more for all the things a business needs to do/have that a lone DIYer doesn't. Not to mention the fact that a lot of researchers are buying thing with grant money, and so can be, in some cases, somewhat price insensitive. I don't doubt that the commercial one is pre-calibrated and certified. But I would be quite surprised if that certification/calibration _actually_ cost ~$9000.

progbits 3y ago
Sure I'm not saying that. If you give away the R&D for free and don't seek profit you can build it much cheaper. But self-calibrating is still something else. Unless I pay some lab with traceable calibration to do it for me I can't use the results to certify other equipment for example. I think it's more like insurance, sure the unit cost is low but you pay extra so in case the lab screws up they pay for the mess.
- MostlyStable 3y ago
  That's fair, but I think a lot of people other than "DIY hobbyists" don't have a need for traceable, liability responsible, validation chains.

jacquesm 3y ago

So what? If you need it, now you can build it. As a hobbyist you don't need certified gear, you need gear.

MrBuddyCasino 3y ago

The point wasn't "you can get rich selling this", but "you can save $$$ building this yourself as a hobbyist".

progbits 3y ago
Absolutely, you are correct.

ortusdux 3y ago

I wonder what 3rd party certification would cost. Industries that use sensors like this frequently require annual recertification, so there are typically multiple testing houses and competitive prices.

jacquesm 3y ago
There is a huge difference between calibration and certification. Calibration means that your instrument gives you absolute rather than relative output. Certification means that your instrument is precise enough to be used for specific procedures. Calibration can be done in house, certification is usually the domain of some certification institution and can be extremely expensive depending on the kind of gear.
HerculePoirot 3y ago
DIY recertification obviously. What's the lowest cost for the hobbyist ? A high-end, stable, double-wall PH-meter or finding a cheap way to build single-wall PH meters ? https://www.instructables.com/cheap-DIY-electronic-pH-meter/ https://www.instructables.com/cheap-DIY-electronic-pH-meter/ You explore the solution-space, and suddenly, out of nowhere it changes your perspective on another aspect, and you realize you may not need a spectrometer at all to measure ion concentartion in aeroponic nutrient solutions. http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~jsduncan/courses../2011_Fall/InstrumentalAnalysis/Labs/9-IonSelectiveElectrodes.pdf http://jupiter.plymouth.edu/~jsduncan/courses../2011_Fall/In...

CamperBob2 3y ago

If you're using it in a lab, you can calibrate and verify this sort of instrument yourself most of the time. Wavelength is trivial to calibrate. Absolute amplitude not so much, but you usually don't care that much about absolute amplitude. Response flatness across the spectrum may or may not be a concern.

s0rce 3y ago

I'm not sure about certification but there is a lot of overhead in designing, producing, selling and servicing products. This is basically a prototype. It will probably work for a while but will be difficult to maintain if something goes wrong and the software won't be very polished. There are a lot of non-BOM costs that go into selling a commercial spectrometer. This is great if you want to DIY one but even a single sensor based visible light spectrometer with cheap parts can't be bought for close to the sum of its parts.

w10-1 3y ago

DIY is not just for hobbyists. Companies face the build-or-buy question every day. This article demonstrates that you can build and validate your build with the knowledge and skills expected of most principal investigators. If I were a lab director, I would want my people to be able to consider building when it makes sense, particularly since we can then integrate systems and tailor validation to our requirements. That's the stuff of proprietary IP and career advancement.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]