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France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement so I wouldn't trust them about this either. It's weird that they are the only country where these iPhones

France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement so I wouldn't trust them about this either. It's weird that they are the only country where these iPhones seem to misbehave.

baybal2 3y ago
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pjerem 3y ago
> France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement What ?
- smorrebrod 3y ago
  I don't know the spread of this movement but it does exist. For example, the national electric company deployed a new generation of electric meter (Linky) which can communicate data to your supplier using PLC. This communication of course emits EM waves so some people objected to the installation of this meter.
  - lloeki 3y ago
    IIRC the EM thing was marginal, a bigger deal was privacy (behaviours could be inferred and resold), and most of the outrage was that people feared being charged more.
  - pjerem 3y ago
    I know, I’m French. Those movements exists but they are no more widespread than in any other country.
- w0m 3y ago
  Sounds similar to the '5g rollout caused covid' movement in the states.
  - some_random 3y ago
    5G panic was absolutely not limited to the US, honestly it's probably more prevalent in France, the UK, and Australia
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Yes I don't think people realize how widespread stuff like homeopathy, cellular EM scare, antivaxx are widespread in Europe and the rest of the world. The US gets the spotlight but in other countries those opinions are often not even controversial (especially for less obvious stuff like radio waves etc)
    - lloeki 3y ago
      It even predates 5G by a long shot, I recall anecdotes running the news headlines about some folks claiming newly installed (2G? 3G?) cell towers were causing them debilitating headaches, and covering walls and windows with tin foil made it better. It was later revealed that while the tower was indeed up it was entirely unpowered the whole time but that bit of news of course did not make it to the headlines.
      - Aerbil313 3y ago
        But ironically those people were truly and seriously getting headaches and tin foil really made it better. People get to experience what they believe deep in their subconsious. See the Nocebo effect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo Having 2 doctor parents and some amount of experience in the field of hypnosis, I can say these sort of things happen all the time to people.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        Yeah we had a huge movement in the Netherlands called "stopumts" (umts = 3g) Now those same people are complaining if they only have a 3G connection because they're out of 4g range :) 5g isn't really a thing in the Netherlands yet because of some deal with Inmarsat that has a base station there and is worried about interference.
    - 3y ago
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Maybe it's just my own perception but it is one of the more widespread "out there" belief in France. It's even supported by national agencies, see my other comment.
  - cccbbbaaa 3y ago
    Yeah, but these people typically target antennas, not 3 years old phones. And don't work for the ANFR. Source: french, living in a small town with its own anti-EM association.
cowl 3y ago
Well if it was for the "cellular EM waves are bad" movement as you put it they would have a problem with most cellular phones and not specifically with the iPhone 12 don't you think?
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Maybe, I'm just saying that the country has a different... opinion on EM waves so that might reflect on this type of action. Just as an example, if you go to their "CDC"'s (not exactly) website, the faq about em exposure from cellular waves starts by saying that there's no real proof for harmful effects buuuut... then goes on to basically say the opposite for the majority of the answer and the article in general. (Q3) >In the current state of knowledge, the Agency's work does not demonstrate a causal link between exposure to waves emitted by mobile communications and effects on health. >However, some publications suggest a possible increase in the risk of brain tumors, in the long term, for intensive users of mobile phones, which is why the IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer) has classified radiofrequencies as “possible carcinogenic”. >Furthermore, the latest ANSES expert opinions have revealed, with limited levels of proof, various biological effects in humans or animals, some of which had already been reported in a previous expert opinion published in 2009: they can concern sleep, male fertility in animals or even cognitive performance. https://www.anses.fr/fr/exposition-ondes-electromagnetiques-questions https://www.anses.fr/fr/exposition-ondes-electromagnetiques-... So again, it's a different pov. And it's weird that no other country came up to the same conclusion as of now. Q7 is also funny as they recommend not using your phone a lot to avoid em exposure, which is true but in context is obviously implying that there is harm from said exposure.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > it's a different pov The “some publications” nonsense would literally require overturning century-old radio physics. Some publications will always find everything to be carcinogenic; this is how statistics work. In the real world, thermal radiation can’t ionise. (Cell phones may be carcinogenic due to their materials and the behaviours they induce.)
- dmazzoni 3y ago

France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement so I wouldn't trust them about this either. It's weird that they are the only country where these iPhones seem to misbehave.

baybal2 3y ago

[dead]

pjerem 3y ago

> France has a huge "cellular EM waves are bad" movement What ?

smorrebrod 3y ago
I don't know the spread of this movement but it does exist. For example, the national electric company deployed a new generation of electric meter (Linky) which can communicate data to your supplier using PLC. This communication of course emits EM waves so some people objected to the installation of this meter.
- lloeki 3y ago
  IIRC the EM thing was marginal, a bigger deal was privacy (behaviours could be inferred and resold), and most of the outrage was that people feared being charged more.
- pjerem 3y ago
  I know, I’m French. Those movements exists but they are no more widespread than in any other country.
w0m 3y ago
Sounds similar to the '5g rollout caused covid' movement in the states.
- some_random 3y ago
  5G panic was absolutely not limited to the US, honestly it's probably more prevalent in France, the UK, and Australia
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Yes I don't think people realize how widespread stuff like homeopathy, cellular EM scare, antivaxx are widespread in Europe and the rest of the world. The US gets the spotlight but in other countries those opinions are often not even controversial (especially for less obvious stuff like radio waves etc)
  - lloeki 3y ago
    It even predates 5G by a long shot, I recall anecdotes running the news headlines about some folks claiming newly installed (2G? 3G?) cell towers were causing them debilitating headaches, and covering walls and windows with tin foil made it better. It was later revealed that while the tower was indeed up it was entirely unpowered the whole time but that bit of news of course did not make it to the headlines.
    - Aerbil313 3y ago
      But ironically those people were truly and seriously getting headaches and tin foil really made it better. People get to experience what they believe deep in their subconsious. See the Nocebo effect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo Having 2 doctor parents and some amount of experience in the field of hypnosis, I can say these sort of things happen all the time to people.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Yeah we had a huge movement in the Netherlands called "stopumts" (umts = 3g) Now those same people are complaining if they only have a 3G connection because they're out of 4g range :) 5g isn't really a thing in the Netherlands yet because of some deal with Inmarsat that has a base station there and is worried about interference.
  - 3y ago
mardifoufs 3y ago
Maybe it's just my own perception but it is one of the more widespread "out there" belief in France. It's even supported by national agencies, see my other comment.
- cccbbbaaa 3y ago
  Yeah, but these people typically target antennas, not 3 years old phones. And don't work for the ANFR. Source: french, living in a small town with its own anti-EM association.

cowl 3y ago

Well if it was for the "cellular EM waves are bad" movement as you put it they would have a problem with most cellular phones and not specifically with the iPhone 12 don't you think?

mardifoufs 3y ago
Maybe, I'm just saying that the country has a different... opinion on EM waves so that might reflect on this type of action. Just as an example, if you go to their "CDC"'s (not exactly) website, the faq about em exposure from cellular waves starts by saying that there's no real proof for harmful effects buuuut... then goes on to basically say the opposite for the majority of the answer and the article in general. (Q3) >In the current state of knowledge, the Agency's work does not demonstrate a causal link between exposure to waves emitted by mobile communications and effects on health. >However, some publications suggest a possible increase in the risk of brain tumors, in the long term, for intensive users of mobile phones, which is why the IARC (International Agency for Research on Cancer) has classified radiofrequencies as “possible carcinogenic”. >Furthermore, the latest ANSES expert opinions have revealed, with limited levels of proof, various biological effects in humans or animals, some of which had already been reported in a previous expert opinion published in 2009: they can concern sleep, male fertility in animals or even cognitive performance. https://www.anses.fr/fr/exposition-ondes-electromagnetiques-questions https://www.anses.fr/fr/exposition-ondes-electromagnetiques-... So again, it's a different pov. And it's weird that no other country came up to the same conclusion as of now. Q7 is also funny as they recommend not using your phone a lot to avoid em exposure, which is true but in context is obviously implying that there is harm from said exposure.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > it's a different pov The “some publications” nonsense would literally require overturning century-old radio physics. Some publications will always find everything to be carcinogenic; this is how statistics work. In the real world, thermal radiation can’t ionise. (Cell phones may be carcinogenic due to their materials and the behaviours they induce.)
dmazzoni 3y ago