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Come on folks, neither the author of the post nor any commenter I've seen here as of writing is arguing that we want any more tulip-scam crap or another FTX, wh

Come on folks, neither the author of the post nor any commenter I've seen here as of writing is arguing that we want any more tulip-scam crap or another FTX, which is probably the highest-profile and clearest-cut instance of financial fraud since LTCM or something: everyone is on the same page that we don't want any more pump-and-dump nonsense from crypto hucksters. But punishing good behavior is a terribly idea at all time and in all places: whatever combination of Paypal, and the regulators, and this Paxos outfit that have decided to raise the bar on Internet money compared to forms of Internet money that we've all taken for granted since forever? That's a good thing. It's very complicated in the details, but roughly, fractional reserve lending done by traditional banks and the money supply created thereby only works because it's in fact enmeshed in an a stupendous net of regulations, and guaranteed by things like the FDIC, and a bunch of stuff. Fractionally-backed, loosely-regulated Internet money is a very bad idea whether it's stored in MySQL or a blockchain. If Wall St. has show us anything since 1987 at least, it's that if we don't keep them on a very short leash, they're going to blow up the economy and stick John Q. Taxpayer with the bill as often as possible. This is true whether the database is DB2 or a ledger, which is one of the key points the author makes.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
This is an attempt to remain relevant with FedNow instant payments available, nothing more, nothing less. Looking at other jurisdictions with instant payment systems (UPI in India, PIX in Brazil), when these new systems are deployed, volume from for profit instant settlement value transfer systems rapidly diminishes. I like my banks and other adult financial institutions because I have recourse through federal regulators or FINRA if they cause me harm. I have no such protections with PayPal. The lesson is to have accounts at real banks that plug into real time payment systems, where your funds are FDIC insured or invested in government securities with no risk of failure.
- benreesman 3y ago
  To me that theory sounds plausible, and even better, testable: we'll know soon if that's how it plays. The comparison made by author and which I'm trying to defend against a pitchfork mob, is between PyUSD and the PayPal "dollars" we've all known and loved since Elon Musk had a receding hairline. And I think the author makes a very convincing case that PyUSD is a strict improvement on the status quo. So maybe it can get better still, and maybe it will, and maybe FedNow will accomplish that. But better today is better today. I'm only arguing that going after a couple of companies and some regulators that have improved the status quo shouldn't get their teeth kicked in because of what database technology is used in the technical implementation.
6kVShitPost 3y ago
[flagged]
- benreesman 3y ago
  I use the word "folks" a lot because it's a gender-neutral informal plural. Historically it would have been "come on guys", but that's not how we talk anymore. There's no attempt to pretend that as software engineer in California that I'm somehow from the Midwest (though my family is in fact from Iowa). And the modern money system is extremely complicated, and doing a 5 megabyte TED talk on why fiat currency is actually a really good system as long as it's run by well-intentioned people seems out of scope for an HN comment. I'll politely ask you to rephrase your objections in a substantive way? If I'm peddling "vile trash" I'd like to fix that, but your comment isn't particularly actionable on that.
coldpie 3y ago
Nah, man. The stink is all over crypto/blockchain like dead fish at the corner of the beach. If your product has anything at all to do with cryptocurrencies or blockchain, I'm closing that tab instantly and moving on with my life. I have zero interest in any product associated with a tech that is used solely by hucksters and criminals. They've had more than a decade to find a single usecase other than crime, and they haven't. We need to just ignore these last few stupid projects that are falling out of the pipeline generated by idiotic contracts signed during the 2020 blockchain fraud/hype bubble.
- benreesman 3y ago
  I appreciate that at an individual level it's reasonable to "close the tab" on a whole space when you're fed up with it, that's your prerogative. But in terms of trashing the work of everyone who has worked on a blockchain in a public forum: `git` is a blockchain by any reasonable "degenerate Merkle tree" definition. Barbara Liskov who is the first female Turing winner (and would have gotten her Turing a lot sooner if it weren't for sexism) has been running a research group at MIT on PBFT for like 10 years. IO-HK has more Turning/Able/Fields-type folks than fucking Google per capita and might be pushing RenTech per-capita. In 1995 the Internet had like three massive use cases: Usenet, penis pill spam, and porn, and by egress, mostly porn. Nothing wrong with porn, but but nothing wrong with some idiots trading Pokemon cards of monkeys for too much money either if this is a free country. Tulip-scam Level 1 blockchains with a clear incentive for the treasury holders to make transactions expensive because they want to pump the fuck out of some stupid token and skip town before the bill comes due? Yeah, I think we're over that now. But take it up with Linus and all the fucking Turing winners if you think the tech never has and never will have any legitimate application.
  - coldpie 3y ago
    Neither [1] nor [2] contain the word "blockchain". I don't think you get to retroactively claim those projects & research as part of the blockchain movement. It was a nice try, though ;) IO-HK's products page is just a list of 2020-era buzzwordy wallet & smart contract junk I've never heard of that all smells like dead fish. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git [2] Well, except in the context of Bitcoin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault

toomuchtodo 3y ago

This is an attempt to remain relevant with FedNow instant payments available, nothing more, nothing less. Looking at other jurisdictions with instant payment systems (UPI in India, PIX in Brazil), when these new systems are deployed, volume from for profit instant settlement value transfer systems rapidly diminishes. I like my banks and other adult financial institutions because I have recourse through federal regulators or FINRA if they cause me harm. I have no such protections with PayPal. The lesson is to have accounts at real banks that plug into real time payment systems, where your funds are FDIC insured or invested in government securities with no risk of failure.

benreesman 3y ago
To me that theory sounds plausible, and even better, testable: we'll know soon if that's how it plays. The comparison made by author and which I'm trying to defend against a pitchfork mob, is between PyUSD and the PayPal "dollars" we've all known and loved since Elon Musk had a receding hairline. And I think the author makes a very convincing case that PyUSD is a strict improvement on the status quo. So maybe it can get better still, and maybe it will, and maybe FedNow will accomplish that. But better today is better today. I'm only arguing that going after a couple of companies and some regulators that have improved the status quo shouldn't get their teeth kicked in because of what database technology is used in the technical implementation.

6kVShitPost 3y ago

[flagged]

benreesman 3y ago
I use the word "folks" a lot because it's a gender-neutral informal plural. Historically it would have been "come on guys", but that's not how we talk anymore. There's no attempt to pretend that as software engineer in California that I'm somehow from the Midwest (though my family is in fact from Iowa). And the modern money system is extremely complicated, and doing a 5 megabyte TED talk on why fiat currency is actually a really good system as long as it's run by well-intentioned people seems out of scope for an HN comment. I'll politely ask you to rephrase your objections in a substantive way? If I'm peddling "vile trash" I'd like to fix that, but your comment isn't particularly actionable on that.

coldpie 3y ago

Nah, man. The stink is all over crypto/blockchain like dead fish at the corner of the beach. If your product has anything at all to do with cryptocurrencies or blockchain, I'm closing that tab instantly and moving on with my life. I have zero interest in any product associated with a tech that is used solely by hucksters and criminals. They've had more than a decade to find a single usecase other than crime, and they haven't. We need to just ignore these last few stupid projects that are falling out of the pipeline generated by idiotic contracts signed during the 2020 blockchain fraud/hype bubble.

benreesman 3y ago
I appreciate that at an individual level it's reasonable to "close the tab" on a whole space when you're fed up with it, that's your prerogative. But in terms of trashing the work of everyone who has worked on a blockchain in a public forum: `git` is a blockchain by any reasonable "degenerate Merkle tree" definition. Barbara Liskov who is the first female Turing winner (and would have gotten her Turing a lot sooner if it weren't for sexism) has been running a research group at MIT on PBFT for like 10 years. IO-HK has more Turning/Able/Fields-type folks than fucking Google per capita and might be pushing RenTech per-capita. In 1995 the Internet had like three massive use cases: Usenet, penis pill spam, and porn, and by egress, mostly porn. Nothing wrong with porn, but but nothing wrong with some idiots trading Pokemon cards of monkeys for too much money either if this is a free country. Tulip-scam Level 1 blockchains with a clear incentive for the treasury holders to make transactions expensive because they want to pump the fuck out of some stupid token and skip town before the bill comes due? Yeah, I think we're over that now. But take it up with Linus and all the fucking Turing winners if you think the tech never has and never will have any legitimate application.
- coldpie 3y ago
  Neither [1] nor [2] contain the word "blockchain". I don't think you get to retroactively claim those projects & research as part of the blockchain movement. It was a nice try, though ;) IO-HK's products page is just a list of 2020-era buzzwordy wallet & smart contract junk I've never heard of that all smells like dead fish. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git [2] Well, except in the context of Bitcoin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault