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Everyone knew that this was just a PR move. This was the intended result. Some policy wonk somewhere thought that this was all on the up-and-up, but everyone el

by yesbut 3y ago

Everyone knew that this was just a PR move. This was the intended result. Some policy wonk somewhere thought that this was all on the up-and-up, but everyone else involved, from Apple to TSMC, and all of the mid level politicians that showed up for the photo ops knew that this was virtue signaling for votes, kickbacks, and subsidies/tax breaks.

eli 3y ago
I think you might be giving mid level politicians too much credit
- yesbut 3y ago
  yeah, good point.
laidoffamazon 3y ago
On-shoring manufacturing isn’t “virtue signaling”, it’s of massive strategic importance. I, for one, think it’ll work out.
cracrecry 3y ago
No. This was a strategic move.Strategy(specially when it works) looks superfluous but it is not. There are strategic fields like food or semiconductors in which you need to assert independence or you will be blackmailed. E.g Germany recently made strategic mistake using the gas from the Russian pipelines AND not building alternatives. Had Germany built energy plants as alternatives, they would have not been used at all(because is is usually more expensive), so people like you would have called them "PR move". Had Germany built alternatives that they could use, Russia would not have been as emboldened to invade Ukraine, and if Russia would had been stupid enough to invade anyway, Europe would not have paid the start of the war to Russia with overprices and Ukraine could have been given heavy weapons way sooner. Europe has wasted tens of billions of euros by making such strategic mistakes. The US is building semiconductors plants in the US. The objective is not to build semiconductors in the US if it is moreexpensive, the objective is be able to create semiconductors very fast if China invades Taiwan.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Germany recently made strategic mistake using the gas from the Russian pipelines AND not building alternatives. Recently?! The gas dependency was set in the 60's
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Given the Chinese stated goal to recapture Taiwan and its recent mandates of state ownership, TSMCs reliance on Taiwan soil facilities is an existential threat to their business as a private enterprise. On the one hand keeping the semiconductor dependent on Taiwan solidifies their defense by being critical to global supply chains, on the other that may not be enough. As a business they need to prepare for the loss of their major manufacturing facilities. I don’t think this is a photo op, it’s a first step in a decoupling and the establishing of an off shore base of operations outside of their main base. I find it sad issues like visas for Taiwanese experts are at the fore here. I would look at as an opportunity to bootstrap local talent through collaboration and some percentage of those visas will turn into citizens and permanent residents, aka Americans.
- genmud 3y ago
  They aren't asking to bring their PHDs or material science people... my understanding is they are asking to bring project managers, foremen, construction workers, pipe fitters and electricians. I live about 10 minutes away from the plant and anecdotally from what I can see of the Taiwanese employees, most seem to be people who are in jeans and cotton work shirts... not button downs or polos.

by yesbut 3y ago

eli 3y ago

I think you might be giving mid level politicians too much credit

yesbut 3y ago
yeah, good point.

laidoffamazon 3y ago

On-shoring manufacturing isn’t “virtue signaling”, it’s of massive strategic importance. I, for one, think it’ll work out.

cracrecry 3y ago

No. This was a strategic move.Strategy(specially when it works) looks superfluous but it is not. There are strategic fields like food or semiconductors in which you need to assert independence or you will be blackmailed. E.g Germany recently made strategic mistake using the gas from the Russian pipelines AND not building alternatives. Had Germany built energy plants as alternatives, they would have not been used at all(because is is usually more expensive), so people like you would have called them "PR move". Had Germany built alternatives that they could use, Russia would not have been as emboldened to invade Ukraine, and if Russia would had been stupid enough to invade anyway, Europe would not have paid the start of the war to Russia with overprices and Ukraine could have been given heavy weapons way sooner. Europe has wasted tens of billions of euros by making such strategic mistakes. The US is building semiconductors plants in the US. The objective is not to build semiconductors in the US if it is moreexpensive, the objective is be able to create semiconductors very fast if China invades Taiwan.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>Germany recently made strategic mistake using the gas from the Russian pipelines AND not building alternatives. Recently?! The gas dependency was set in the 60's

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Given the Chinese stated goal to recapture Taiwan and its recent mandates of state ownership, TSMCs reliance on Taiwan soil facilities is an existential threat to their business as a private enterprise. On the one hand keeping the semiconductor dependent on Taiwan solidifies their defense by being critical to global supply chains, on the other that may not be enough. As a business they need to prepare for the loss of their major manufacturing facilities. I don’t think this is a photo op, it’s a first step in a decoupling and the establishing of an off shore base of operations outside of their main base. I find it sad issues like visas for Taiwanese experts are at the fore here. I would look at as an opportunity to bootstrap local talent through collaboration and some percentage of those visas will turn into citizens and permanent residents, aka Americans.

genmud 3y ago
They aren't asking to bring their PHDs or material science people... my understanding is they are asking to bring project managers, foremen, construction workers, pipe fitters and electricians. I live about 10 minutes away from the plant and anecdotally from what I can see of the Taiwanese employees, most seem to be people who are in jeans and cotton work shirts... not button downs or polos.