3 ms·

> The problem is that programming is a far more heterogeneous task than teaching. I read this part of your comment, and immediately assumed that you were not a

by blahedo 15y ago

> The problem is that programming is a far more heterogeneous task than teaching. I read this part of your comment, and immediately assumed that you were not a teacher. Then you said you were, and furthermore that your "methods were exactly the same", which surprised me for two reasons. First of all, the task itself is extremely heterogeneous within-task even if you re-teach the same subject several times; second, no two classes are really the same, and although there are classes I've taught seven or eight times now, the particular dynamic of the particular classroom required adaptation, using different examples, different activities, and in some cases different evaluations. Not to mention all the different levels and subjects of classes that I've needed to teach. At least, that's what good teachers do. (I don't mean that as an attack on the parent poster's teaching---I find it at least possible that they did all these things but didn't realise how much variability there was in the task.) There are, of course, mediocre teachers, who get through their task by learning a pattern and doing it the same way each time. But that kind of gets back to the OP: it may be that the middle is easy to measure, but the high end, not so much.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
How is the task heterogeneous? Yeah, class dynamics differ a little bit depending on who the students are, and occasionally you get a few extra geniuses or dunces. But the goal of calc 1 is always to get students to integrate, differentiate, and do linear approximations. In contrast, my current programming job was to build a visual search engine, my last was to trade stocks. Before that it was research in MRI, before that quantum mechanics simulations. Who knows what my next will be? It makes sense to compare # of students who can integrate in 2012 to # of students who can integrate in 2011. It's a noisy measurement, but it works. How do you compare search engines to quantum mechanics simulations? As for my teaching, the data I have suggests I was average. But there was not enough data to get a good picture - I only taught a couple of classes with standardized finals.
- blahedo 15y ago
  > How is the task heterogeneous? Within a single course, the heterogeneity comes from how to actually do things, how to understand what you did, how to understand what other people are doing when they do the same things, how to think about changes to those patterns when the task changes a little, how to write about what you did, how to talk about what you did, how to read/listen to other people talking about what they did, and many other aspects of understanding the material. None of these are actually the same thing; the unifying thread in a given content area is you might have to memorise the same jargon and diagram conventions for each of those different tasks. A given course may also be somewhat heterogeneous in its content; for instance, a typical AI course might include algorithms and strategies based on discrete probability, others based on highly-architected structural representations of knowledge, and still others based on self-rewriting code. At a lower level (high school), you might consider a biology teacher, who gets to cover cellular biology, taxonomy and cladistics, genetics, anatomy and physiology, and possibly some other things I'm forgetting right now. Between courses, teaching is heterogeneous because you're teaching a lot of different things. Even if it's all "math", for instance, there's a fair amount of variation between algebra, geometry, logarithms and function analysis, differential calculus, vector calculus, trigonometry, and probability and statistics, and that's just among the courses often taught at the high school level. And all of that is only talking about the things taught, which speaks directly to the question of evaluation. But on the subject of heterogeneity, classroom dynamics can vary significantly just between semesters at the same school, not to mention between different schools, and within a single classroom you have students with assorted learning disabilities (documented or not) and simply different learning styles—some are more verbal, some need to see it done, some need to do it on their own first, some benefit more from working together, some really need to try it first and crash and then hear the way they were supposed to do it and try again. It's a lot more than just "a few extra geniuses or dunces". Teaching is pretty damn heterogeneous. The best teachers I know are, and have to be, among the most mentally-agile people I know.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    You are completely missing the point, so let me repeat: "It makes sense to compare # of students who can integrate in 2012 to # of students who can integrate in 2011. It's a noisy measurement, but it works. How do you compare search engines to quantum mechanics simulations?"
    - blahedo 15y ago
      It's on point because "number of students who can integrate in 2012 vs 2011" is rather more like "percent of regression tests passed in 2012 projects vs 2011 projects" than it is like "quality of (?) search engine code vs quantum simulation code", or better, "number of successfully completed customer tasks using search engine product vs quantum simulation product". That is it measures something that is not irrelevant, but awfully specific, and possibly less indicative of the larger whole than you might think. Because teaching is pretty heterogeneous. And the measurement is extremely indirect, i.e. how good another person is at something after interacting with the programmer/teacher's product.

by blahedo 15y ago

yummyfajitas 15y ago

How is the task heterogeneous? Yeah, class dynamics differ a little bit depending on who the students are, and occasionally you get a few extra geniuses or dunces. But the goal of calc 1 is always to get students to integrate, differentiate, and do linear approximations. In contrast, my current programming job was to build a visual search engine, my last was to trade stocks. Before that it was research in MRI, before that quantum mechanics simulations. Who knows what my next will be? It makes sense to compare # of students who can integrate in 2012 to # of students who can integrate in 2011. It's a noisy measurement, but it works. How do you compare search engines to quantum mechanics simulations? As for my teaching, the data I have suggests I was average. But there was not enough data to get a good picture - I only taught a couple of classes with standardized finals.

blahedo 15y ago
> How is the task heterogeneous? Within a single course, the heterogeneity comes from how to actually do things, how to understand what you did, how to understand what other people are doing when they do the same things, how to think about changes to those patterns when the task changes a little, how to write about what you did, how to talk about what you did, how to read/listen to other people talking about what they did, and many other aspects of understanding the material. None of these are actually the same thing; the unifying thread in a given content area is you might have to memorise the same jargon and diagram conventions for each of those different tasks. A given course may also be somewhat heterogeneous in its content; for instance, a typical AI course might include algorithms and strategies based on discrete probability, others based on highly-architected structural representations of knowledge, and still others based on self-rewriting code. At a lower level (high school), you might consider a biology teacher, who gets to cover cellular biology, taxonomy and cladistics, genetics, anatomy and physiology, and possibly some other things I'm forgetting right now. Between courses, teaching is heterogeneous because you're teaching a lot of different things. Even if it's all "math", for instance, there's a fair amount of variation between algebra, geometry, logarithms and function analysis, differential calculus, vector calculus, trigonometry, and probability and statistics, and that's just among the courses often taught at the high school level. And all of that is only talking about the things taught, which speaks directly to the question of evaluation. But on the subject of heterogeneity, classroom dynamics can vary significantly just between semesters at the same school, not to mention between different schools, and within a single classroom you have students with assorted learning disabilities (documented or not) and simply different learning styles—some are more verbal, some need to see it done, some need to do it on their own first, some benefit more from working together, some really need to try it first and crash and then hear the way they were supposed to do it and try again. It's a lot more than just "a few extra geniuses or dunces". Teaching is pretty damn heterogeneous. The best teachers I know are, and have to be, among the most mentally-agile people I know.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  You are completely missing the point, so let me repeat: "It makes sense to compare # of students who can integrate in 2012 to # of students who can integrate in 2011. It's a noisy measurement, but it works. How do you compare search engines to quantum mechanics simulations?"
  - blahedo 15y ago
    It's on point because "number of students who can integrate in 2012 vs 2011" is rather more like "percent of regression tests passed in 2012 projects vs 2011 projects" than it is like "quality of (?) search engine code vs quantum simulation code", or better, "number of successfully completed customer tasks using search engine product vs quantum simulation product". That is it measures something that is not irrelevant, but awfully specific, and possibly less indicative of the larger whole than you might think. Because teaching is pretty heterogeneous. And the measurement is extremely indirect, i.e. how good another person is at something after interacting with the programmer/teacher's product.