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I think you misunderstand. My intention was not to say local-first is bad or impossible; it's not. We have been local-first at Notesnook since the beginning and

I think you misunderstand. My intention was not to say local-first is bad or impossible; it's not. We have been local-first at Notesnook since the beginning and it has been going alright so far. But anyone looking to go local-first or build a local-first solution should have a clear idea of what problems can arise. As I said in the original comment: it's not all gardens and roses.

rollcat 3y ago
> As I said in the original comment: it's not all gardens and roses. Which is why I bit ;) You're raising valid but also quite broad concerns. Share some war stories, if you can <3
- thecodrr 3y ago
  Ah war stories. Just a few weeks back a user came to us after failing to migrate GBs of their data off of Evernote. This, of course, included attachments. They had successfully imported & synced 80K items, but when they tried to login on their iPhone, the sync was really, really slow. They had to wait 5 hours just to get the count up to 20K items. And that's when the app crashed resetting the whole sync progress to 0. In short, we had not considered someone syncing 80K items. To be clear, 80K is not a lot of items even for a local-first sync system, but you do have to optimize for it. The solution consisted of extensively utilizing batching & parallelization on both the backend & the users' device. The result? Now their 80K items sync within 2 minutes.
  - raspasov 3y ago
    In this case, would the optimizations/fix be easier if you were using traditional client-server setup vs local-first?
    - yencabulator 3y ago
      The problem wouldn't exist. This was about the phone fetching 80k new items from the server. If the phone just shows the item you're looking at, one at a time, and doesn't try to sync everything, there's no such problem.
      - raspasov 3y ago
        There's no restriction inherent to CRDTs/local-first around a partial sync. You are not required to sync everything.

rollcat 3y ago

> As I said in the original comment: it's not all gardens and roses. Which is why I bit ;) You're raising valid but also quite broad concerns. Share some war stories, if you can <3

thecodrr 3y ago
Ah war stories. Just a few weeks back a user came to us after failing to migrate GBs of their data off of Evernote. This, of course, included attachments. They had successfully imported & synced 80K items, but when they tried to login on their iPhone, the sync was really, really slow. They had to wait 5 hours just to get the count up to 20K items. And that's when the app crashed resetting the whole sync progress to 0. In short, we had not considered someone syncing 80K items. To be clear, 80K is not a lot of items even for a local-first sync system, but you do have to optimize for it. The solution consisted of extensively utilizing batching & parallelization on both the backend & the users' device. The result? Now their 80K items sync within 2 minutes.
- raspasov 3y ago
  In this case, would the optimizations/fix be easier if you were using traditional client-server setup vs local-first?
  - yencabulator 3y ago
    The problem wouldn't exist. This was about the phone fetching 80k new items from the server. If the phone just shows the item you're looking at, one at a time, and doesn't try to sync everything, there's no such problem.
    - raspasov 3y ago
      There's no restriction inherent to CRDTs/local-first around a partial sync. You are not required to sync everything.