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So I did my first part in trying to support everyone who dislikes this as much as I do. I cancelled my Prime and I will try to not purchase anything from Amazon

So I did my first part in trying to support everyone who dislikes this as much as I do. I cancelled my Prime and I will try to not purchase anything from Amazon for a year. It's not much, but it's something. I invite everyone to do the same.

0xEF 3y ago
For those that want to follow, what are good online shopping alternatives? I find that most people I talk to are drawn to Amazon simply because Amazon has managed to set an expectation of fast deliver, often as little as same-day delivery in areas that have a warehouse nearby (like the one I live in). I make every effort to shop local, or find alternative places to order online, but one cannot argue the convenience Amazon has created when it comes to speed and selection. I say that being an old fart who remembers when 6-8 weeks was standard delivery time. Note I am not defending Amazon, abd frankly, I despise what they have done. The warehouse in my town was build about 6 years ago, and it has definitely had an impact on small businesses combined with the presence of chain retail giants. In most cases, when I need a specific tool for a job, or am trying to find out-of-season product (both happened recently), I have no choice but to turn to Amazon. This may speak to the larger problem of the busy life we have built (or allowed to be built for us?), but perhaps that is another discussion.
- dtx1 3y ago
  I often buy things on ebay. At least here in germany it's filled with offers from small to medium sized companies that offer usually cheaper or equivalent prices to amazon.
  - deadbunny 3y ago
    I do find it amusing that back in the day eBay was considered a scammers paradise and now I find it more trustworthy then Amazon.
- blagie 3y ago
  I recently switched to Walmart Plus. For me, on the whole, it's better: - Shipping times are faster than Amazon. I do consistently see same-day delivery, whereas Amazon almost never did, and had frequent delays (in my area) - Less of a problem with comingling / fakes - Returns work better. - So far, no broken / damaged packaging. Amazon would e.g. toss delicate items, a heavy bottle of detergent, and sharps in the same box with no packaging, with the expected results. On the downside: - It's slightly more expensive. On the whole, went accounting for broken / damaged items, fakes, etc., I still think I come out ahead. - Less selection of esoteric items. I just order those from Aliexpress, Amazon, or eBay (and wait until I get up to $35 free shipping for the former). Amazon never shipped those quickly in either case. This was not based on unions or ethics. Amazon worked great for me through 2020. It broke in 2020, and since then, I've had consistent issues. Customer service is also no longer empowered to resolve issues.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    Yeah, this one works okay for you, but I don't see someone making a switch from Amazon to Walmart if they're concerned about unions or ethics.
- foresto 3y ago
  Target, Costco, and Newegg (for certain items) come to mind has having good prices and return policies.
  - ta8645 3y ago
    Costco in particular, treat their employees quite well.
  - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    Target is also notorious for union-busting tactics.
- FridayNightTV 3y ago
  > For those that want to follow, what are good online shopping alternatives? In Blighty, Argos. No counterfeit stuff (which frankly, should be a given), same day delivery and a good network of bricks'n'mortar shops (with pick-up and drop-off) if you need it. http://www.argos.co.uk/ http://www.argos.co.uk/
  - bambataa 3y ago
    If you are concerned by the ethics of Amazon I don’t see how Argos is a step up: https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/argos-buzz-bingo-and-chanel-among-fines-for-minimum-wage-violations https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/argos-buzz-bingo-a... https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/union-takes-legal-action-against-369661 https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/union-takes-l...
- viraptor 3y ago
  Check the more direct producers/distributors. Either the producer itself is likely to list the shops stocking their stuff, or sell it directly. Worst case, just search for "buy (the thing you want) (location)" and you'll likely find a place. Otherwise, eBay is quite good around my area.
- pawelwentpawel 3y ago
  In Poland, the major competitor to Amazon is Allegro (https://allegro.pl/ https://allegro.pl/). It's an online shopping platform that is not as centralised as Amazon. It's more of a marketplace where both small and larger sellers can list their items. In tandem with InPost (which has lockers spread around entire country), Allegro creates a great and efficient online shopping experience. The only drawback for me really is that sometimes if you order a numer of things, they will all come shipped separately.
  - ryukoposting 3y ago
    > The only drawback for me really is that sometimes if you order a numer of things, they will all come shipped separately. Amazon does this too. My fiancée frequently places one order for 5-6 items and receives 3-4 different packages throughout the week.
- developer93 3y ago
  I often use Amazon to search & then just search the brand online, often you can but direct from them
nonrandomstring 3y ago
Goodonya. Here's what I did. It's not for everyone. It was painful, awkward and led to a lot of bother... but ultimately I feel proud of myself and how the other responded. I rejected a gift that came in an Amazon box. Very politely, and apologetically., I said, "I'm really sorry, but I can't accept this." And why, (working conditions, monopoly etc). It had an effect not only on myself - to make an ideological whimsy into a real and binding action - putting my skin in the game - but also on the other person who was initially embarrassed, then emboldened. It led to a memorable and positive conversation.
- halflings 3y ago
  > It led to a memorable and positive conversation. Was the conversation really positive? My first instinct was to think that this is incredibly awkward and harsh for the person that made the effort to buy you a gift; or to speak for myself: I would be pretty pissed if a good friend has a birthday, and I buy them an iPhone from AT&T and they refuse my gift because... <working conditions, monopoly>.
  - UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    Yeah. I also make it a personal rule to never buy things on Amazon, but I can't imagine turning down a gift like this from someone.
- dkdbejwi383 3y ago
  I agree with your sentiment, but equally with the other reply that points out how this may backfire and embarrass the gift giver. I've previously turned down Amazon gift cards at things like social games nights, quizzes etc in the past and asked instead for the equivalent value to be donated to charity. In this case I think there's less risk of embarrassing the giver (there's no personal connection) but hopefully achieves something similar to your intent.
  - developer93 3y ago
    Gift cards in general are a scam, I never understood why giving money is a problem.
systemvoltage 3y ago
I love Amazon and will continue to use their store. Just adding some balance here. I don’t immediately watch a clip and decide to protest.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  So … this clip is the first bad thing you’ve seen about Amazon and its business practices? Are you one of the 10,000 that is just learning about Amazon today?
  - systemvoltage 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      Well, if it helps, I am really sorry about your life and that of millions of people. I get it, I order there too occasionally, but...
    - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
      > I oppose unions May I ask why, and if you don't mind, where you're from? I ask because I see anti-union sentiment online fairly often, and typically from Americans. I don't understand why unions are so mistrusted there. I've lived my life in countries where unions are a normal thing that most people wouldn't think twice about, whether they are a member or not.
      - toastercat 3y ago
        I'm American and was in a union before. Some of my coworkers disliked the union because it was mandatory to pay fees when you started the job, whether you took advantage of union benefits or not. There was also an incident where an employee threatened to stab another employee, but because of the union, it was very difficult and time-consuming to get them fired (imagine working next to a guy who threatened to stab you for over a month). That being said, the coworkers who expressed dislike for the union also enjoyed the benefits of guaranteed wage increases, free gym access, and generous holiday time. I think in general in the USA, there is a view that unions slow down progress and create extra bureacracy, which they often do. There are good unions and bad unions.
chang1 3y ago
Generally speaking, convenience is king. I find a lot of like-minded people will easily overlook or not even consider what is happening behind the scenes. There is a tradeoff for low prices/convenience and it's not always obvious. I cancelled Prime about 6 months ago and I thought it would be difficult, but it's actually been fine. I shopped at Whole Foods for over a decade and there are staples I thought I couldn't find elsewhere. I discovered through a combination of Trader Joe's, my local grocery store, and Aldi, I found replacements for everything, items I like better, and I save way more money! As for non-grocery items, I'll often try to buy from the manufacturer directly, even if that means paying a little bit more. If I can't find something directly, I'll check Walmart, Target or other established retailers and usually can find something for a comparable price. I've also made a slow shift to buying used items. For books, on eBay I can often find them used, in like-new condition for a fraction of the cost at Amazon and with free shipping. It's a gamble and sometimes I get books with highlighted pages or cosmetic damage, but it's rare. And when Amazon is only the cost effective way to purchase something or I can only find it on Amazon, I'll wait until I can hit $25 for free shipping and wade through Amazon's dark patterns in the checkout process. Turns out, "standard shipping" still ships in 2 days because I'm guessing logistically it's better to just keep inventory flowing with all other Prime purchases. My wife managed PTO orders for teachers at our local school through their non-Prime Amazon account... guess what, every order shipped "early" anyway and received within 2 days. Prime is kind of a scam IMO if fast shipping is the draw (although I never utilized other value-add services like Prime Video or Music). When someone asks me about Amazon and I mention I don't have Prime, I often get shocked responses. I'm not trying to actively dissuade people from Amazon/Prime if they like it, but I'm hoping it will get people thinking. Convenience is a hell of a drug.
- not_enoch_wise 3y ago
  If you’re turning to trader joe’s to boycott anti-union behavior, I have bad news for you…
  - chang1 3y ago
    Uh oh, just did a search... well that's too bad. I guess my point still stands where I'm not buying all my eggs from 1 marketplace.
rexpop 3y ago
The best and most helpful thing you could actually do would be to unionize, yourself, and engage in illegal sympathy strikes.
friend_and_foe 3y ago
I won't be. Out of all the big tech companies out there, Amazon is the one that delivers the most value to me. I have my gripes with them, but overall I pay them and they send a product I want to my house and that's it. I am also not fond of unions and understand their position. Them trying to prevent unions from forming in their company isn't something I'm up in arms about, I'd do the same thing if I ran a big company.
- tetris11 3y ago
  > I am also not fond of unions I can understand this stance from the POV of a strong armed union monopolizing an industry and preventing small struggling businesses from making ends meet. These are but lowly workers being exploited by a large corporation that makes hand-on-fist even in hard times. The power imbalance is huge and the cost of a wage increase so small respectively, I can't quite grok why you'd not be for it.
  - friend_and_foe 3y ago
    Are they being exploited? Do you mean paid for their voluntary labor, which is ethical exploitation, or something else? There's a strong push in the media for this, when that happens I get suspicious. And again, I'm just generally opposed to unions. I don't like them, I don't think they are usually a positive development.

0xEF 3y ago

For those that want to follow, what are good online shopping alternatives? I find that most people I talk to are drawn to Amazon simply because Amazon has managed to set an expectation of fast deliver, often as little as same-day delivery in areas that have a warehouse nearby (like the one I live in). I make every effort to shop local, or find alternative places to order online, but one cannot argue the convenience Amazon has created when it comes to speed and selection. I say that being an old fart who remembers when 6-8 weeks was standard delivery time. Note I am not defending Amazon, abd frankly, I despise what they have done. The warehouse in my town was build about 6 years ago, and it has definitely had an impact on small businesses combined with the presence of chain retail giants. In most cases, when I need a specific tool for a job, or am trying to find out-of-season product (both happened recently), I have no choice but to turn to Amazon. This may speak to the larger problem of the busy life we have built (or allowed to be built for us?), but perhaps that is another discussion.

dtx1 3y ago
I often buy things on ebay. At least here in germany it's filled with offers from small to medium sized companies that offer usually cheaper or equivalent prices to amazon.
- deadbunny 3y ago
  I do find it amusing that back in the day eBay was considered a scammers paradise and now I find it more trustworthy then Amazon.
blagie 3y ago
I recently switched to Walmart Plus. For me, on the whole, it's better: - Shipping times are faster than Amazon. I do consistently see same-day delivery, whereas Amazon almost never did, and had frequent delays (in my area) - Less of a problem with comingling / fakes - Returns work better. - So far, no broken / damaged packaging. Amazon would e.g. toss delicate items, a heavy bottle of detergent, and sharps in the same box with no packaging, with the expected results. On the downside: - It's slightly more expensive. On the whole, went accounting for broken / damaged items, fakes, etc., I still think I come out ahead. - Less selection of esoteric items. I just order those from Aliexpress, Amazon, or eBay (and wait until I get up to $35 free shipping for the former). Amazon never shipped those quickly in either case. This was not based on unions or ethics. Amazon worked great for me through 2020. It broke in 2020, and since then, I've had consistent issues. Customer service is also no longer empowered to resolve issues.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  Yeah, this one works okay for you, but I don't see someone making a switch from Amazon to Walmart if they're concerned about unions or ethics.
foresto 3y ago
Target, Costco, and Newegg (for certain items) come to mind has having good prices and return policies.
- ta8645 3y ago
  Costco in particular, treat their employees quite well.
- UtopiaPunk 3y ago
  Target is also notorious for union-busting tactics.
FridayNightTV 3y ago
> For those that want to follow, what are good online shopping alternatives? In Blighty, Argos. No counterfeit stuff (which frankly, should be a given), same day delivery and a good network of bricks'n'mortar shops (with pick-up and drop-off) if you need it. http://www.argos.co.uk/ http://www.argos.co.uk/
- bambataa 3y ago
  If you are concerned by the ethics of Amazon I don’t see how Argos is a step up: https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/argos-buzz-bingo-and-chanel-among-fines-for-minimum-wage-violations https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/argos-buzz-bingo-a... https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/union-takes-legal-action-against-369661 https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/union-takes-l...
viraptor 3y ago
Check the more direct producers/distributors. Either the producer itself is likely to list the shops stocking their stuff, or sell it directly. Worst case, just search for "buy (the thing you want) (location)" and you'll likely find a place. Otherwise, eBay is quite good around my area.
pawelwentpawel 3y ago
In Poland, the major competitor to Amazon is Allegro (https://allegro.pl/ https://allegro.pl/). It's an online shopping platform that is not as centralised as Amazon. It's more of a marketplace where both small and larger sellers can list their items. In tandem with InPost (which has lockers spread around entire country), Allegro creates a great and efficient online shopping experience. The only drawback for me really is that sometimes if you order a numer of things, they will all come shipped separately.
- ryukoposting 3y ago
  > The only drawback for me really is that sometimes if you order a numer of things, they will all come shipped separately. Amazon does this too. My fiancée frequently places one order for 5-6 items and receives 3-4 different packages throughout the week.
developer93 3y ago
I often use Amazon to search & then just search the brand online, often you can but direct from them

nonrandomstring 3y ago

Goodonya. Here's what I did. It's not for everyone. It was painful, awkward and led to a lot of bother... but ultimately I feel proud of myself and how the other responded. I rejected a gift that came in an Amazon box. Very politely, and apologetically., I said, "I'm really sorry, but I can't accept this." And why, (working conditions, monopoly etc). It had an effect not only on myself - to make an ideological whimsy into a real and binding action - putting my skin in the game - but also on the other person who was initially embarrassed, then emboldened. It led to a memorable and positive conversation.

halflings 3y ago
> It led to a memorable and positive conversation. Was the conversation really positive? My first instinct was to think that this is incredibly awkward and harsh for the person that made the effort to buy you a gift; or to speak for myself: I would be pretty pissed if a good friend has a birthday, and I buy them an iPhone from AT&T and they refuse my gift because... <working conditions, monopoly>.
- UtopiaPunk 3y ago
  Yeah. I also make it a personal rule to never buy things on Amazon, but I can't imagine turning down a gift like this from someone.
dkdbejwi383 3y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but equally with the other reply that points out how this may backfire and embarrass the gift giver. I've previously turned down Amazon gift cards at things like social games nights, quizzes etc in the past and asked instead for the equivalent value to be donated to charity. In this case I think there's less risk of embarrassing the giver (there's no personal connection) but hopefully achieves something similar to your intent.
- developer93 3y ago
  Gift cards in general are a scam, I never understood why giving money is a problem.

systemvoltage 3y ago

I love Amazon and will continue to use their store. Just adding some balance here. I don’t immediately watch a clip and decide to protest.

Ensorceled 3y ago
So … this clip is the first bad thing you’ve seen about Amazon and its business practices? Are you one of the 10,000 that is just learning about Amazon today?
- systemvoltage 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Well, if it helps, I am really sorry about your life and that of millions of people. I get it, I order there too occasionally, but...
  - dkdbejwi383 3y ago
    > I oppose unions May I ask why, and if you don't mind, where you're from? I ask because I see anti-union sentiment online fairly often, and typically from Americans. I don't understand why unions are so mistrusted there. I've lived my life in countries where unions are a normal thing that most people wouldn't think twice about, whether they are a member or not.
    - toastercat 3y ago
      I'm American and was in a union before. Some of my coworkers disliked the union because it was mandatory to pay fees when you started the job, whether you took advantage of union benefits or not. There was also an incident where an employee threatened to stab another employee, but because of the union, it was very difficult and time-consuming to get them fired (imagine working next to a guy who threatened to stab you for over a month). That being said, the coworkers who expressed dislike for the union also enjoyed the benefits of guaranteed wage increases, free gym access, and generous holiday time. I think in general in the USA, there is a view that unions slow down progress and create extra bureacracy, which they often do. There are good unions and bad unions.

chang1 3y ago

Generally speaking, convenience is king. I find a lot of like-minded people will easily overlook or not even consider what is happening behind the scenes. There is a tradeoff for low prices/convenience and it's not always obvious. I cancelled Prime about 6 months ago and I thought it would be difficult, but it's actually been fine. I shopped at Whole Foods for over a decade and there are staples I thought I couldn't find elsewhere. I discovered through a combination of Trader Joe's, my local grocery store, and Aldi, I found replacements for everything, items I like better, and I save way more money! As for non-grocery items, I'll often try to buy from the manufacturer directly, even if that means paying a little bit more. If I can't find something directly, I'll check Walmart, Target or other established retailers and usually can find something for a comparable price. I've also made a slow shift to buying used items. For books, on eBay I can often find them used, in like-new condition for a fraction of the cost at Amazon and with free shipping. It's a gamble and sometimes I get books with highlighted pages or cosmetic damage, but it's rare. And when Amazon is only the cost effective way to purchase something or I can only find it on Amazon, I'll wait until I can hit $25 for free shipping and wade through Amazon's dark patterns in the checkout process. Turns out, "standard shipping" still ships in 2 days because I'm guessing logistically it's better to just keep inventory flowing with all other Prime purchases. My wife managed PTO orders for teachers at our local school through their non-Prime Amazon account... guess what, every order shipped "early" anyway and received within 2 days. Prime is kind of a scam IMO if fast shipping is the draw (although I never utilized other value-add services like Prime Video or Music). When someone asks me about Amazon and I mention I don't have Prime, I often get shocked responses. I'm not trying to actively dissuade people from Amazon/Prime if they like it, but I'm hoping it will get people thinking. Convenience is a hell of a drug.

not_enoch_wise 3y ago
If you’re turning to trader joe’s to boycott anti-union behavior, I have bad news for you…
- chang1 3y ago
  Uh oh, just did a search... well that's too bad. I guess my point still stands where I'm not buying all my eggs from 1 marketplace.

rexpop 3y ago

The best and most helpful thing you could actually do would be to unionize, yourself, and engage in illegal sympathy strikes.

friend_and_foe 3y ago

I won't be. Out of all the big tech companies out there, Amazon is the one that delivers the most value to me. I have my gripes with them, but overall I pay them and they send a product I want to my house and that's it. I am also not fond of unions and understand their position. Them trying to prevent unions from forming in their company isn't something I'm up in arms about, I'd do the same thing if I ran a big company.

tetris11 3y ago
> I am also not fond of unions I can understand this stance from the POV of a strong armed union monopolizing an industry and preventing small struggling businesses from making ends meet. These are but lowly workers being exploited by a large corporation that makes hand-on-fist even in hard times. The power imbalance is huge and the cost of a wage increase so small respectively, I can't quite grok why you'd not be for it.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  Are they being exploited? Do you mean paid for their voluntary labor, which is ethical exploitation, or something else? There's a strong push in the media for this, when that happens I get suspicious. And again, I'm just generally opposed to unions. I don't like them, I don't think they are usually a positive development.