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I fail to see how this is the solution. China now produces more CO2 than US and europe combined. And it's growing. So is India. Germany committing economic sui

by zpeti 3y ago

I fail to see how this is the solution. China now produces more CO2 than US and europe combined. And it's growing. So is India. Germany committing economic suicide will not save the planet. It's also not going to persuade china and india to change course.

pelasaco 3y ago
> Germany committing economic suicide will not save the planet. Actually will make the situation worse, since Germany uses the taxpayers money to support many other countries around the World.. Less tax money, less money to share. > It's also not going to persuade China and India to change course Even worse: It will show other Countries that the right way to move forward is to be like China and India, instead of being like Germany.
adaml_623 3y ago
Just think about what will persuade China and India? Maybe Germany just wants to be ahead of the pack
- usrusr 3y ago
  China is doing a massive renewable buildup. Yes, they are also increasing fossil-based production, but that's because their renewable buildup can't quite keep up with total growth. China is persuaded, more than most others. (unfortunately India is a very different story)
marcyb5st 3y ago
Unless at some point we (meaning humanity) introduce a carbon tax based on how sustainable are the means of production of a country. Another thing. China has more people that Europe and US combined and so does India. With your statement you are somewhat implying that we (European as Us citizen) have a right to pollute more per capita than Cinese and Indian citizens. I don't think that's fair.
- zpeti 3y ago
  > Another thing. China has more people that Europe and US combined and so does India. With your statement you are somewhat implying that we (European as Us citizen) have a right to pollute more per capita than Cinese and Indian citizens. I don't think that's fair. So you've admitted China and India has more people, who want to consume more and produce more CO2 (don't make the mistake in thinking they are transitioning to renewables, they are adding them, but also adding shittons of coal power plants). We have 2.3bn people that WANT to consume as much as the west per capita. How is german economic suicide going to help? You bring down your own consumption for some moral reason, while completely ignoring what is happening in asia? How does that help anyone? It doesn't help the planet, it doesn't help yourself. The whole thing is some wierd suicidal virtue signalling. It makes no practical sense.
  - marcyb5st 3y ago
    It's not that they directly WANT to consume as much, is that quality of life is tied to per-capita energy expenditure. Do you WANT to compromise on your comforts to go on-par with India's average quality of living?
- _0ffh 3y ago
  China matches Germany in per-capita CO2 also, with a rising trend as opposed to Germany's trend which has been falling for decades. https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?country=CHN~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?country=CHN~DEU
Tade0 3y ago
> It's also not going to persuade china and india to change course. Seeing how China essentially took over global PV market share from Germany and Japan and will cross 500GW installed this year, doubling that number by 2028, I think they were already persuaded years ago - it's just that ramping up production to the scale of a 1bln+ country takes time. And they're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts - it's just cheaper this way.

by zpeti 3y ago

pelasaco 3y ago

> Germany committing economic suicide will not save the planet. Actually will make the situation worse, since Germany uses the taxpayers money to support many other countries around the World.. Less tax money, less money to share. > It's also not going to persuade China and India to change course Even worse: It will show other Countries that the right way to move forward is to be like China and India, instead of being like Germany.

adaml_623 3y ago

Just think about what will persuade China and India? Maybe Germany just wants to be ahead of the pack

usrusr 3y ago
China is doing a massive renewable buildup. Yes, they are also increasing fossil-based production, but that's because their renewable buildup can't quite keep up with total growth. China is persuaded, more than most others. (unfortunately India is a very different story)

marcyb5st 3y ago

Unless at some point we (meaning humanity) introduce a carbon tax based on how sustainable are the means of production of a country. Another thing. China has more people that Europe and US combined and so does India. With your statement you are somewhat implying that we (European as Us citizen) have a right to pollute more per capita than Cinese and Indian citizens. I don't think that's fair.

zpeti 3y ago
> Another thing. China has more people that Europe and US combined and so does India. With your statement you are somewhat implying that we (European as Us citizen) have a right to pollute more per capita than Cinese and Indian citizens. I don't think that's fair. So you've admitted China and India has more people, who want to consume more and produce more CO2 (don't make the mistake in thinking they are transitioning to renewables, they are adding them, but also adding shittons of coal power plants). We have 2.3bn people that WANT to consume as much as the west per capita. How is german economic suicide going to help? You bring down your own consumption for some moral reason, while completely ignoring what is happening in asia? How does that help anyone? It doesn't help the planet, it doesn't help yourself. The whole thing is some wierd suicidal virtue signalling. It makes no practical sense.
- marcyb5st 3y ago
  It's not that they directly WANT to consume as much, is that quality of life is tied to per-capita energy expenditure. Do you WANT to compromise on your comforts to go on-par with India's average quality of living?
_0ffh 3y ago
China matches Germany in per-capita CO2 also, with a rising trend as opposed to Germany's trend which has been falling for decades. https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?country=CHN~DEU https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?country=CHN~DEU

Tade0 3y ago

> It's also not going to persuade china and india to change course. Seeing how China essentially took over global PV market share from Germany and Japan and will cross 500GW installed this year, doubling that number by 2028, I think they were already persuaded years ago - it's just that ramping up production to the scale of a 1bln+ country takes time. And they're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts - it's just cheaper this way.